LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[snowy]

Hahahaha

[redpost]

Wow Penguin68

With uninformed comments like this, this forum gets more like the daily mail comments section every day

Yes of course, it's a class war by a tory government on it's wealthy car owning voters

The policy to reduce car usage and dedicate more road space post-covid, to pedestrians and cyclists is a national tory policy

[Penguin68]

it's a class war by a tory government on it's wealthy car owning voters

Goodness, and there was me thinking that Labour were in power in Southwark - how did I miss that? The labour party in Southwark is continuing its publicly stated (they won an election on that) position to remove, as much as they can, private cars from Southwark. People voted for that (and it was also lib dem policy).

If they are using Conservative legislation to achieve their ends, why wouldn't they? My point was that complaining that the plans didn't meet objectives that the council frankly isn't interested in is to miss the point. No, their plans don't improve the things that people might have wanted, like reducing queuing traffic pumping out fumes - but that was never their end.

Conservative policy, if it's about anything, is about reducing car usage to reduce pollution. That's not the key aim of the local labour party whose policy long pre-dates Covid.

And if you actually think that the conservatives won the last general election on the back of 'wealthy, car owning voters' (I had to assume you were joking there) - you did not notice what was happening north of The Wash.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I really don't think this is about class war. We do need to reduce the number of car journeys and encourage active travel as much as possible if we're going to tackle, pollution, obesity and generally improve the environment for people and businesses.

[alice]

So it?s just a coincidence that the main beneficiaries are those in the wealthier part of our borough?

[Spartacus]

Rah

Won't the extended ULEZ improve the environment ?

I can see the glory grabbing now

Southwark saying we done good reducing pollution by blocking streets and the mayor saying the same by reducing older polluting vehicles (despite the environmental cost of building new cars being higher than keeping older cars running)

It's going to be Glory Road !

[andrewc]

New car for old...a study.

http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/research/beforeh2/files/weiss_otr2020.pdf

[Spartacus]

Thanks Andrewc

A 20 Year old study which needs a modern rewrite and it doesn't take into account the environmental damage caused by farming battery components and how many miles an old car actually drives per year compared to a brand new one (older cars tend to be classics and are driven less miles per year)

Would be interested in seeing a more up to date version.

[rachp]

alice Wrote:

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> So it?s just a coincidence that the main

> beneficiaries are those in the wealthier part of

> our borough?

In ED and DV it is hard to avoid wealthy streets isn't it? Is Melbourne Grove an outlier in ED? And Rye Lane is not wealthy. I don't know where else in Southwark this is happening, I'm assuming not only in Dulwich as it's a London wide initiative.

[andrewc]

New cars for old...more recent studies.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

[Sally Eva]

Browning Street and other parts of North Walworth are also having street closures to make it easier and healthier to walk and cycling. These would generally be reckoned deprived areas -- like Rye Lane, as you say.

.

this is the Commonplace page for comments https://walworthstreetspace.commonplace.is/comments. Basically they are blocking a rat-run across the Walworth Road between the A2 and A3. This is the page which explains what they are doing and why https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/commonplace-customer-assets/walworthstreetspace/Walworth%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

rachp Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> alice Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So it?s just a coincidence that the main

> > beneficiaries are those in the wealthier part

> of

> > our borough?

>

> In ED and DV it is hard to avoid wealthy streets

> isn't it? Is Melbourne Grove an outlier in ED? And

> Rye Lane is not wealthy. I don't know where else

> in Southwark this is happening, I'm assuming not

> only in Dulwich as it's a London wide initiative.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The Walworth scheme is great. Actually a much more strategic intervention. Will make a big difference not just locally, but to those Cycling into central London from south of the borough.

[intexasatthe moment]

Is the closure of Rye Lane comparable ? It was already more or less closed to all vehicles except buses .

It disadvantages the many shoppers who rely on buses and the retail outlets who have already taken a hit from Covid .

And I've not found it helpful for social distancing as walking in the road amongst bikes ,scooters,skate boards etc rather scary .Though I guess this might change .

[Sally Eva]

there were loads of private cars and lorries in Rye Lane from late morning onwards. There's a rat-run which comes into Rye Lane from Bournemouth Road, turns left and then exits right down Choumert Road. There's another thread of traffic which comes into Rye Lane from the Primark end and exits at the south end by the Morning Star. Some of it does an illegal right turn to rejoin the main traffic at the Copeland Road lights.

The buses could be allowed in with a bus gate but buses probably need speed limiters to operate in such a heavy footfall environment as Rye Lane. Speed limiters (limited to 20) are said to be on their way but never seem to arrive

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is the closure of Rye Lane comparable ? It was

> already more or less closed to all vehicles except

> buses .

>

> It disadvantages the many shoppers who rely on

> buses and the retail outlets who have already

> taken a hit from Covid .

>

> And I've not found it helpful for social

> distancing as walking in the road amongst bikes

> ,scooters,skate boards etc rather scary .Though I

> guess this might change .

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's a major 'town centre' and so it makes sense to pedestrianise (most provincial town centres were pedestrianised back in the 80s).

[spider69]

I would not call it a major town centre any more more of a street selling cheap rubbish.

[alice]

thanks for comments. I'll have a look at the borough wide plan.

Although i prefer the term 'direct route' or 'short cut' to the perjorative 'rat run'.

[Earl Aelfheah]

spider69 Wrote:

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> I would not call it a major town centre any more

> more of a street selling cheap rubbish.

It's used by many people and perhaps pedestrianisation may help it broaden it's appeal and encourage a greater mix of shops.

[rupert james]

All selling the same stuff as now.

It had a greater mix of shops I recall but what is now there is what the residents wanted.

[alice]

It is a thriving shopping street and unlike many there are no boarded up shops. It would be good to get the buses back.

[Spartacus]

rupert james Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All selling the same stuff as now.

>

> It had a greater mix of shops I recall but what is

> now there is what the residents wanted.

Strangely it's not just locals who shop there, a percentage of shoppers come from other parts of the country as the products on sale are better value in Peckham. The change with more bars and nightlife that has been occurring will also have an impact on the day time offering although this is reliant on high streets in general surviving the triple whammy of internet, Covid and local councils

[womanofdulwich]

when/who is going to occupy the space in Dulwich Village at the end of Court Lane- pop up pizzas? fish n chips? cocktails?

[alice]

😂

[nxjen]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

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> when/who is going to occupy the space in Dulwich

> Village at the end of Court Lane- pop up pizzas?

> fish n chips? cocktails?

I believe this space is now called Dulwich Square?

[sally buying]

Twinned with Bellenden Village