LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[rupert james]

Does exeastdulwicher work for Southwark Council on traffic planning?

[exdulwicher]

Does exeastdulwicher work for Southwark Council on traffic planning?

I've said it before on this thread and others. I don't work for Southwark or TfL. I don't even work directly in traffic planning, I do data modelling and statistics - just that at the moment a fair bit of it is to do with roads.

I've been critical of Southwark (and several other authorities nationwide) on traffic schemes if you read back through the posting history. All I generally do is post FACTS about traffic schemes and how modal filters are supposed to work, the general principles of survey work, data gathering, how its modelled. I try to stay away from my personal opinion of whether it's working or not for the fairly obvious reason that it could be construed as conflict of interest. There's a lot of "general" stats in what I write although obviously I can apply it locally.

[Spartacus]

I wonder what new tactic the scam callers will use when the council gets their way and no one can drive so none of us will be involved in accidents ?

[Dulres3]

> There is no move to ban cars.

Having spoken to members of cycling and environmental lobbying groups, the desire for a completely vehicle free London has been expressed to me many times. You could argue they were on the fringe, but it is a tacitly held goal of many. Those same groups have the ear of those in power, and those in power are sympathetic to them.

> I don't drive 'when I feel like it'. I drive when I need to

You appear to assume the agency to decide what is a necessary journey, but seek to deny that agency to others. Perhaps the number of vehicles on the road is a consequence of population density rather than the poor choices of other people.

> I just hope the council has

> the guts to face down the petrol heads and apply

> more of these pinch points. I've been as guilty as

> anyone of overusing the car for local journeys

The 'petrol heads' you refer to are other normal people, just like you, trying to live their lives as best they can. The desire to punish them for their mode of transportation seems awfully vindictive.

> What we really need is a council and councillors that properly listen and engage in an even handed way

Totally onboard with that. I guess the question is how can that be achieved when the agenda is so ideologically driven? I see my councillors representatives (and MPs for that matter) once every 4 years when they come begging for votes at election time. Outside of the election cycle, their level of engagement with those who disagree with them appears to be exactly zero.

[Rockets]

I definitely consider myself a normal person and not a petrol head and what annoys me more than anything is the attitude of the lobbyists we hear from time and time again on here and elsewhere that whatever people do it is never enough.

The council closes DV and we hear, during the celebratory proclamations, that this is not enough...we want more, more, more. They are like addled drug addicts who need the next fix to satiate their urges.

It is also their blinkered belief that because all is great on the streets that they are dancing jigs of delight on that everything is good in the world and all those cars that used the junction have now gone to scrap dealers. They haven't - they're are clogging up other roads, spending ages trying to negotiate the blockade of DV and creating even more pollution. In fact, I am very surprised the council don't place sandpits in the roads closed so the supporters can stick their heads in it!

Here's a very real example of the impact on local residents I experienced yesterday. My son was having a friend around yesterday afternoon. His friend was at a club on Gallery Road and I offered that I would pick him up at 3pm. To get to Gallery Road I would normally have gone via the DV junction and been there in 10 minutes. Now, before the activists start baying that I should have walked or cycled I will get my defence in early - I was trying to fit picking him up between conference calls, it was tipping down with rain and my son's friend didn't have a bike with him - some very real world issues that are typical of why people chose cars over bikes.

So, instead of a 15 minute round-trip it was 45 minutes. It took 20 minutes to get there (since the closure the right turn at the Grove Tavern from Lordship Lane is awful all times of the day) and 25 minutes to get back. The traffic back round the A205 towards Lordship Lane was backed up all the way to college - very unusual for 3pm and one can only presume because cars cannot get through the DV junction to the eastern side of Dulwich.

This is the reality of what these closures do - they have created traffic problems all around Dulwich and will be leading to a huge increase in pollution. East Dulwich Grove is a nightmare as well. Dulwich is now ringfenced by permanently blocked roads that used to run pretty freely until these moves.

Of course, we will no doubt hear that the closure has been a great success as the pollution on Calton Avenue has dropped but a few hundred yards away pollution will be a lot worse but, of course, the council won't be monitoring there (until such time as they want to justify closing those roads).

The council representatives have taken to their bunkers and are trying to ride out the storm - it is so telling that after posting the surveys on every thread here to try and help justify the closures Cllr McAsh has been been pretty much MIA.

[Spartacus]

Perfect summary Rockets

And the comment about mCASH being missing in action is spot on

[lbsmith73]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I definitely consider myself a normal person and

> not a petrol head and what annoys me more than

> anything is the attitude of the lobbyists we hear

> from time and time again on here and elsewhere

> that whatever people do it is never enough.

>

> The council closes DV and we hear, during the

> celebratory proclamations, that this is not

> enough...we want more, more, more. They are like

> addled drug addicts who need the next fix to

> satiate their urges.

>

> It is also their blinkered belief that because all

> is great on the streets that they are dancing jigs

> of delight on that everything is good in the world

> and all those cars that used the junction have now

> gone to scrap dealers. They haven't - they're are

> clogging up other roads, spending ages trying to

> negotiate the blockade of DV and creating even

> more pollution. In fact, I am very surprised the

> council don't place sandpits in the roads closed

> so the supporters can stick their heads in it!

>

> Here's a very real example of the impact on local

> residents I experienced yesterday. My son was

> having a friend around yesterday afternoon. His

> friend was at a club on Gallery Road and I offered

> that I would pick him up at 3pm. To get to Gallery

> Road I would normally have gone via the DV

> junction and been there in 10 minutes. Now, before

> the activists start baying that I should have

> walked or cycled I will get my defence in early -

> I was trying to fit picking him up between

> conference calls, it was tipping down with rain

> and my son's friend didn't have a bike with him -

> some very real world issues that are typical of

> why people chose cars over bikes.

>

> So, instead of a 15 minute round-trip it was 45

> minutes. It took 20 minutes to get there (since

> the closure the right turn at the Grove Tavern

> from Lordship Lane is awful all times of the day)

> and 25 minutes to get back. The traffic back round

> the A205 towards Lordship Lane was backed up all

> the way to college - very unusual for 3pm and one

> can only presume because cars cannot get through

> the DV junction to the eastern side of Dulwich.

>

> This is the reality of what these closures do -

> they have created traffic problems all around

> Dulwich and will be leading to a huge increase in

> pollution. East Dulwich Grove is a nightmare as

> well. Dulwich is now ringfenced by permanently

> blocked roads that used to run pretty freely until

> these moves.

>

> Of course, we will no doubt hear that the closure

> has been a great success as the pollution on

> Calton Avenue has dropped but a few hundred yards

> away pollution will be a lot worse but, of course,

> the council won't be monitoring there (until such

> time as they want to justify closing those

> roads).

>

> The council representatives have taken to their

> bunkers and are trying to ride out the storm - it

> is so telling that after posting the surveys on

> every thread here to try and help justify the

> closures Cllr McAsh has been been pretyy much MIA.

You could always take an umbrella?

[Rockets]

One thing I think we can all agree on, especially following the post-election Labour party fiasco, is that the far-left don't score highly when it comes to scrutiny or accountability...;-)

[Rockets]

lbsmith73 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I definitely consider myself a normal person

> and

> > not a petrol head and what annoys me more than

> > anything is the attitude of the lobbyists we

> hear

> > from time and time again on here and elsewhere

> > that whatever people do it is never enough.

> >

> > The council closes DV and we hear, during the

> > celebratory proclamations, that this is not

> > enough...we want more, more, more. They are

> like

> > addled drug addicts who need the next fix to

> > satiate their urges.

> >

> > It is also their blinkered belief that because

> all

> > is great on the streets that they are dancing

> jigs

> > of delight on that everything is good in the

> world

> > and all those cars that used the junction have

> now

> > gone to scrap dealers. They haven't - they're

> are

> > clogging up other roads, spending ages trying

> to

> > negotiate the blockade of DV and creating even

> > more pollution. In fact, I am very surprised

> the

> > council don't place sandpits in the roads

> closed

> > so the supporters can stick their heads in it!

> >

> > Here's a very real example of the impact on

> local

> > residents I experienced yesterday. My son was

> > having a friend around yesterday afternoon. His

> > friend was at a club on Gallery Road and I

> offered

> > that I would pick him up at 3pm. To get to

> Gallery

> > Road I would normally have gone via the DV

> > junction and been there in 10 minutes. Now,

> before

> > the activists start baying that I should have

> > walked or cycled I will get my defence in early

> -

> > I was trying to fit picking him up between

> > conference calls, it was tipping down with rain

> > and my son's friend didn't have a bike with him

> -

> > some very real world issues that are typical of

> > why people chose cars over bikes.

> >

> > So, instead of a 15 minute round-trip it was 45

> > minutes. It took 20 minutes to get there (since

> > the closure the right turn at the Grove Tavern

> > from Lordship Lane is awful all times of the

> day)

> > and 25 minutes to get back. The traffic back

> round

> > the A205 towards Lordship Lane was backed up

> all

> > the way to college - very unusual for 3pm and

> one

> > can only presume because cars cannot get

> through

> > the DV junction to the eastern side of Dulwich.

> >

> > This is the reality of what these closures do -

> > they have created traffic problems all around

> > Dulwich and will be leading to a huge increase

> in

> > pollution. East Dulwich Grove is a nightmare as

> > well. Dulwich is now ringfenced by permanently

> > blocked roads that used to run pretty freely

> until

> > these moves.

> >

> > Of course, we will no doubt hear that the

> closure

> > has been a great success as the pollution on

> > Calton Avenue has dropped but a few hundred

> yards

> > away pollution will be a lot worse but, of

> course,

> > the council won't be monitoring there (until

> such

> > time as they want to justify closing those

> > roads).

> >

> > The council representatives have taken to their

> > bunkers and are trying to ride out the storm -

> it

> > is so telling that after posting the surveys on

> > every thread here to try and help justify the

> > closures Cllr McAsh has been been pretyy much

> MIA.

>

> You could always take an umbrella?

Ha ha. there you go - validating my point entirely, the activists always have an answer for everything.....do you have an umbrella capable of time shifting as well?

[lbsmith73]

I think you are on to something there... Really I am a car owner and to be honest all the traffic made me change my behaviours. I now cycle the 9 miles to work and it is quicker than driving and the train. It keeps me in shape, saves on gym fees, good for the environment and you only need a bit of wet weather gear from time to time. Not to mention it has saved me a fortune in fuel and rail fares. I know it?s difficult but change is hard and sometimes you have to look beyond your own needs.

[geh]

I thought we were all using electric/hybrid cars? Southwark don?t seem to see them as an alternative?

[Spartacus]

lbsmith73 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you are on to something there... Really I

> am a car owner and to be honest all the traffic

> made me change my behaviours. I now cycle the 9

> miles to work and it is quicker than driving and

> the train. It keeps me in shape, saves on gym

> fees, good for the environment and you only need a

> bit of wet weather gear from time to time. Not to

> mention it has saved me a fortune in fuel and rail

> fares. I know it?s difficult but change is hard

> and sometimes you have to look beyond your own

> needs.

Lordy above

A born again cyclist

Praise be 😂

Next we can cure the lame and make them cycle again 😱

[andrewc]

lbsmith73 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you are on to something there... Really I

> am a car owner and to be honest all the traffic

> made me change my behaviours. I now cycle the 9

> miles to work and it is quicker than driving and

> the train. It keeps me in shape, saves on gym

> fees, good for the environment and you only need a

> bit of wet weather gear from time to time. Not to

> mention it has saved me a fortune in fuel and rail

> fares. I know it?s difficult but change is hard

> and sometimes you have to look beyond your own

> needs.

[sillywoman]

lbsmith73 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you are on to something there... Really I

> am a car owner and to be honest all the traffic

> made me change my behaviours. I now cycle the 9

> miles to work and it is quicker than driving and

> the train. It keeps me in shape, saves on gym

> fees, good for the environment and you only need a

> bit of wet weather gear from time to time. Not to

> mention it has saved me a fortune in fuel and rail

> fares. I know it?s difficult but change is hard

> and sometimes you have to look beyond your own

> needs.

Marvellous. Good for you. Now how do I translate that into my working life?

I'm a community midwife. I travel 500 miles a month from Fulham in the north to Epsom and Banstead in the south and to Bexley in the East. I have to carry my emergency equipment with me at all times - 4 large and heavy bags and boxes that fill my car boot. Includes resuscitation equipment for adults and newborns. Impossible to do my job without a car (I know, I tried to do it on a scooter for a year). I live just off East Dulwich Grove and the combination of these utterly selfish and purposeless road closures - reducing the routes to my home form the south from 5 to 2 - and the soon to be CPZ means that my day-to-day working life has changed significantly for the worse. This means that after 25 years of living in our home, and raising our children here, creating a community, we are feeling forced to seriously consider moving elsewhere. We don't want to, but we might have to.

Sometimes you have to look beyond your own smug, self-satisfaction to see needs of others, and hear the distress being caused to them.

[first mate]

Sillywoman, so glad you have spoken out and so sad you are being hit in this way, especially as you perform such a valuable community role.

I have to say that some of the myopic, cycling lobbyists on here are of the view that moving is exactly what you should do.

The other point is the poster you replied to says ?sometimes we need to look beyond our own needs? failing to see that for him/her driving was not a ?need? it was a preference. What you describe is a genuine need. The problem with these interventions is that those with genuine need are being sacrificed in favour of those who can make changes based on preference.

[sim1]

Rockets ? I sympathise completely with the challenges of chauffeuring various children around. Reading that did remind me about the excitement when me and my friends turned 10 and we were legally allowed to be on the roads on our bikes by ourselves (back on the Continent). It was our pass to freedom! We used our bikes to get everywhere ? to school and back, to our friends? houses, to the lakes in summer and to the ice rink in winter ? come rain, snow or shine ? we were on our bikes. It was freedom for us and it also meant our parents didn?t have to spend time playing taxi service. That?s what I would like for my kids and not being glued to the steering wheel being stuck in traffic and stressed thinking I will be late for a conference call. (It would also make the roads clearer for people who would actually need to use the car for their work).

Also, let?s not forget that the majority of households in Southwark do not have access to a car, so parents playing taxi service to their kids is not an option for most. With free bus travel for the under-18s put on ice, walking and cycling will be the only way for many to get to school come September. Guys and St Thomas? hospital has also this week put out a plea to Councils to make it safer for its staff to walk and cycle to the hospital. Redistribution of roadspace simply needs to happen, and fast. That doesn?t mean EVERYONE needs to stop driving, it is also about ENABLING people that don?t have a car to get around, safely, by whatever mode of transport...

I am also frustrated with the Council?s approach, as I don?t think its going fast and far enough, but I also realise that there are budget constraints and am relieved that at least something seems to happen, even if it?s just in dribs. So I am certainly not going to put spanners in the works for the Council, by joining the OneDulwich pressure group. Looks like all across the country that same conversations seem to be happening, so Dulwich is by no means special in that sense...

[first mate]

I think that if this is what you want for your children then living in London is not realistic. I just don?t see how the city can properly function if road closures are pervasive.

Those who do not have access to a car will have to a degree planned for, adapted and developed their living patterns over a number of years, lack of a car will probably have informed work choices as well as other key aspects of survival. The sudden, extensive road closures are forcing some into impossible situations, with no time to plan or adapt.

To what extent do you think children will be able to safely walk and cycle in the dark winter months? Safety is not just a matter of removing motorised transport from the roads is it? What about street crime? No doubt bikes, especially e-bikes etc.. will become increasingly desirable items and those using them potentially vulnerable. Those walking are even easier targets. These issues also apply to the elderly.

[singalto]

Did I read that there is no longer a right turn from LLonto the South Circular at the Grove Tavern? What does the P13 do now?

[Spartacus]

singalto Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Did I read that there is no longer a right turn

> from LLonto the South Circular at the Grove

> Tavern? What does the P13 do now?

You can still turn right

It's just a long queue to do it

[macutd]

lbsmith73 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you are on to something there... Really I

> am a car owner and to be honest all the traffic

> made me change my behaviours. I now cycle the 9

> miles to work and it is quicker than driving and

> the train. It keeps me in shape, saves on gym

> fees, good for the environment and you only need a

> bit of wet weather gear from time to time. Not to

> mention it has saved me a fortune in fuel and rail

> fares. I know it?s difficult but change is hard

> and sometimes you have to look beyond your own

> needs.

So do you get into work smelly, or are you lucky enough to have somewhere to shower when you arrive?

[Earl Aelfheah]

People should go and check out Northcote Road. It?s been utterly transformed.

[Metallic]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People should go and check out Northcote Road.

> It?s been utterly transformed.

That's too far for me to cycle I'm afraid.

[bels123]

Some videos of Northcote Road here

and

[dulwichfolk]

Northcote road is a weekend only closure...and where are the bikes suppose to go safely amongst all the people?

[Rockets]

Also, i am not sure what point people are trying to make here about the Northcote Road weekend closures as all the closures around Dulwich aren?t designed to create more space for shoppers visiting high streets - our councillors have done diddly squat to assist social distancing on Lordship Lane bar the token gesture outside Oddonos, which came far too late.

Also, the Northcote Road closures are weekend only probably as the council realises closing key routes there would be disastrous for the surrounding roads.

Once again, the pro-cycle, reclaim the streets lobby scream look, look, look at what they have done and when you scratch beneath the surface you realise it makes what is happening around here look even more non-sensical.