LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Chris_1]

Croxted was a disaster tonight as well.

Cant believe there?s still nothing from Southwark on this

[heartblock]

19:30 traffic flowing...so that is 60 minutes evening at least, but cannot report on traffic conditions earlier as not around.

[peckhamside]

At the end of the day traffic flows are very complicated. I cannot see that closing a few cut throughs would really change journey times as there will be pinch points that already existed on most routes that limit total traffic flow. I suspect there are more car journeys now than in 2019. Also a number of other things such as road works more local building works etc. over a large area could be causing hold ups. At least those living on EDG can now go to local streets on foot to escape pollution. Lets hope all those drivers get bored soon!!

[slarti b2]

northernmonkey Wrote:

> I don't think any of us think that cycling has gone up over 300% on Calton.

Well, both you and I know that the claimed increase in cycling of of 301% (or 231% to Apr 21)published in Southwarks's interim report is a massive, gross overstatement, based on an innacurate and biased baseline.

However, those figures have been published by Southwark Highways department in a report that will be used by the Council Cabinet (or maybe C'llor Rose?) to decide whether to keep the road closures and other measures. Do they know it is grossly misleading? Do they know that it casts doubt on many of the other claimed cycle increases in the report?

Our councillors don't seem very good at analysing and interpreting data and presumably will rely on what their council officers have provided, even though it is totally unreliable.

Still, if they do make a flawed decision based on this error prone and mistaken assumption of a huge increase in cycling it will make any legal challenge that much easier.

[heartblock]

This is the issue. Suspecting, imagining and even in my case -observing over 30 years is not valid, properly collected and analysed-independently data.

Unfortunately Southwark Council seem to be a little troubled when it comes to the challenges of property deals (Land -lease and Heygate), consultation (LTNs and Peckham Green) and data/statistics - pollution monitors and active travel.

The raw data already suffers from selection, omitted variable bias/cause-effect bias (pandemic/lockdown) and observer bias, but in any case needs to be blinded - for example not knowing which road or year is being analysed to prevent funding and cognitive bias. This is why nobody knows the real active travel and cycling numbers - all such a waste of money. just spend it on a local publicly funded local bus service and better cycle lanes/pavements and open the gated roads that do nothing for the majority of residents that fund this Council.

[legalalien]

Heartblock it seems like you can add the Council?s inability to interpret demand for school places to your list, I suspect this is going to be the next big drama - the council seems to have predicted massive demand and built new schools at a time when demand is falling and now some schools will close due to financial unsustainability. See eg https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/exclusive-st-johns-walworth-could-close-by-september/. Whenever the subject comes up in council meetings everyone tries to close it down ASAP with a statement about birth rates falling across London. Features in this months? capital report to Cabinet -

?The overall context is that there is spare capacity in the primary sector (spread unequally across the borough) because of falling rolls relating to a reduced birth rate, exasperated by Covid-19 and a slowdown in growth in the secondary sector. Opportunities are being explored for rationalisation of buildings to make the best use of existing assets to reduce running costs for schools.?

Loving the inadvertent use of exasperated instead of exacerbated. I?m sure someone there is probably exasperated!

[legalalien]

Seems to be an anti LTN protest at he closed junction this morning.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yep, a small number of idiots blocking the right turn for cyclists with their bags and placards.

?Open the roads? they say, whilst obstructing their use for the many families passing through. 🤦‍♂️

[Spartacus]

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems to be an anti LTN protest at he closed

> junction this morning.

Is that this month's Saturday activity on the so called Dulwich Square ?

People get funding for the strangest of things 😉

[ab29]

Aww, poor families deprived of their cappuccinos on the Labour Square of Shame - what a tragedy.

In a meantime, families living on the boundary roads are choking on the extra fumes - pity the idiots who closed the roads don't give a damn about them.

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yep, a small number of idiots blocking the right

> turn for cyclists with their bags and placards.

>

> ?Open the roads? they say, whilst obstructing

> their use for the many families passing through.

> 🤦‍♂️

[alice]

So you?re calling the 100+ group of older people, whose lives have been negatively affected, idiots.

[Chris_1]

Thought it was a pretty nice, friendly turnout to be honest. Seemed like a decent number of people - and I was quite late. Didn?t look like any cyclists had any problems getting past or anything either. All very civilised really.

[heartblock]

I believe it was organised by some 60+ year-old residents, who feel trapped and negatively affected by the road closures. I see that the reports are that the turnout is around 120 older Southwark residents (or 'idiots' according to at least one supporter of gated communities and polluted, traffic jammed roads).

[AlexandHelenC]

Good for them. Hope they got some attention from the press.

[Metallic]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yep, a small number of idiots blocking the right

> turn for cyclists with their bags and placards.

>

> ?Open the roads? they say, whilst obstructing

> their use for the many families passing through.

> 🤦‍♂️

So did we all see you at some point? I was there for a bit.

[Abe_froeman]

I'm sure raratrollrah has equal disdain for the teadance events that block the route for cyclists.

[northernmonkey]

People who disagree with your views on a public discussion forum are not 'trolling'.

[Spartacus]

Looks like a good turnout and possibly the most use the so called "Dulwich Square" has ever seen.

[Metallic]

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People who disagree with your views on a public

> discussion forum are not 'trolling'.

As we all know, this is not the case. But hey, we all know who we are don't we!!?

[ab29]

P3girl: let us know here about any future protests pls.

[northernmonkey]

Sorry- not sure you?ve been as clear as you think you have here?

You don?t think it is trolling or you don?t think what I said is true? Think it got lost in the rest of your comments

Metallic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> northernmonkey Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > People who disagree with your views on a public

> > discussion forum are not 'trolling'.

>

> As we all know, this is not the case. But hey, we

> all know who we are don't we!!?

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yep, a small number of idiots blocking the right

> turn for cyclists with their bags and placards.

>

> ?Open the roads? they say, whilst obstructing

> their use for the many families passing through.

> 🤦‍♂️

Rahx3 - why do you refer to these people as idiots? Is it because as a pro-LTN supporter you have become so used to your peers name calling anyone who dares to try and have a voice that amplifies a view other than your own that it has become something of a Pavlovian response?

These people hardly look like idiots - it looks very much like a group of people who are protesting against the closure and they are providing no more of a blockage than the time Southwark Cyclists/LCC descended en-masse (in an organised group coming from the Lordship Lane area) to celebrate the closure of the junction earlier in the summer and pose for the photo op they organised with Southwark News.

Why can't you just respect that these people want to protest?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Look at the photo. Very clearly there are people blocking anyone turning right from the main road into Calton Ave.

They could have had their protest without blocking people using the supposedly ?closed? road. But they wanted to get lots of honks from those driving by, whilst they called for less car pollution and protested restricting access as they blocked those turning right. With no sense of irony.

[Earl Aelfheah]

P3girl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> - rahrahrah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Yep, a small number of idiots blocking the

> > right turn for cyclists with their bags and

> placards.

> > >

> > > ?Open the roads? they say, whilst obstructing

> > > their use for the many families passing

> > through.

> >

> >

>

> @rahrahrah,

>

> If you look at the photos, you will see no one was

> blocking the road. All were on the pavement. In

> fact, several cyclists were very complimentary and

> supportive. These folks were ALL sensible senior

> citizens who were expressing their views in a

> quiet and responsible manner. Many depend on

> public transport that has been adversely affected

> by the LTNs

>

> And it wasn't just about their own demographic -

> several placards said things like "YOUNG LUNGS

> MATTER" and "DON'T FAKE THE DATA". They were not a

> bunch of self-centred "idiots" as you suggested.

>

> In many cultures around the world, old age is

> revered and respected. We need some of that here.

>

> These protestors are certainly not idiots.

Young lungs matter, as you block young families trying to turn right off the main road and encourage honks of support from passing SUVs? Photo of people blocking anyone trying to turn into Calton Avenue have been posted above by someone else. See attached. You have every right to campaign for more cars in side roads but there are a lot of families very happy to have a safe route which kids feel confident cycling on. No doubt it will soon be full of cars again, but in the meantime let them actually enjoy getting around the area under their own steam and enjoy being able to get outside and exercise please.

[Bicknell]

dear @rahrahrah

not sure your local. if you were, you would know all teh demonstraters are on the pavement. you can see it in the photo.