LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Nigello]

I agree that people are more likely to walk than cycle but disagree that public transport is bad. With apps like the TfL one and Citymapper it?s possible to know when a bus arrives. It?s also possible to bus hop without paying extra within 59 minutes of taking the first bus. A Tube or tram would be great but it?s not going to happen so make the most of what we have which I think is at least 7/10.

[heartblock]

PT prices about to increase, train service reduced and bus routes slowed because of LTNs. South London PT and Southwark PTAL one of the worse.

[peckhamside]

I think walk to the nursery (as I see lots of people doing) then walk on to the station.

[rachp]

As a parent at the existing nursery next door, my observation is that there are parents who drive to the nursery but they are in the very small minority, and there has never a stipulation that you can?t drive. I think you?d have to be mad to sign up for a nursery where not only you have been told you can?t drive, but it is practically impossible to park your car, if your intention is to drive. That said, given the shortage of places, some people might do it as a temp measure before they can get a place at a more suitable nursery as there will be a sudden abundance of places in the early days and people can get very desperate when they need childcare.

[Metallic]

So what do we all think about no data from the Southwark Consultation?

Do you think there is an element of "cooking the books" going on?

[heartblock]

I think they are currently paying some external company a lot if OUR money to manipulate the data in a format that makes it appear that the LTNs are popular and that active travel has increased.

This can be achieved by grouping and or changing boundaries. TFL did the same thing with active travel data. They grouped cycling and walking together to make it look like that there was a huge increase in cycling over lockdown. In fact with an FOI request the increase was in walking in the main, probably due to home working, shopping locally etc..but a good thing in any-case.

Cycling went up a by about 5% and is now back to the same sort of levels pre-lockdown.

Not that you would know that by the widely banded around information that is used to support the failed LTNs and the square of shame.

[Metallic]

I saw the turn out for the closed junction. A couple of dozen people sitting defiantly in the drizzle. I am wondering when the council will re-open them junction for at least emergency vehicles. They are not very Healthy Streets if you are waiting for an ambulance.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

>Good public transport is the answer and waiting longer for the miracle of evaporation is like wishing for unicorns.

The 37 and P4 will never be good as long as so many cars are in their way. Reducing the number of private cars and vans is a precondition for improving public transport. There will never be an effortless shift for drivers from their private cars to public transport

[slarti b2]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The 37 and P4 will never be good as long as so many cars are in their way. Reducing the number of

> private cars and vans is a precondition for improving public transport.

So, diverting cars onto the boundary roads such as EDG, Half Moon Lane, SOuth Circular etc is not going to help the P$ and 37 is it? Similalry with buses going down Croxted Road and Lordship Lane.

[Rockets]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >Good public transport is the answer and waiting

> longer for the miracle of evaporation is like

> wishing for unicorns.

>

> The 37 and P4 will never be good as long as so

> many cars are in their way. Reducing the number of

> private cars and vans is a precondition for

> improving public transport. There will never be an

> effortless shift for drivers from their private

> cars to public transport

Oh my......

[Spartacus]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > >Good public transport is the answer and

> waiting

> > longer for the miracle of evaporation is like

> > wishing for unicorns.

> >

> > The 37 and P4 will never be good as long as so

> > many cars are in their way. Reducing the number

> of

> > private cars and vans is a precondition for

> > improving public transport. There will never be

> an

> > effortless shift for drivers from their private

> > cars to public transport

>

>

> Oh my......

Exactly rockets, DKHB just looks from their ivory tower on the top of the hill overlooking the JS car park and can't see the bigger picture or that every action by the council seems to have a opposite and negative reaction.

Perhaps after the consultation, and if the results are similar to Ealing's resounding no to LTNs, then the council may start to work with the wider stakeholder group to design a solution that works for everyone and not just Lycra lovies

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"DKHB just looks from their ivory tower"

It's not an ivory tower. Do you think I just magically float around London in a flying chariot powered by unicorn farts?

It is a complete delusion to think that public transport (and specifically for Dulwich, buses) can be significantly improved without getting rid of a significant proportion of private cars and delivery vans. There is a limited amount of road space - that's not going to change in a 2000 year old city.

Equally, whoever thinks that only other people will have to give up some convenience ("why can't local people have special passes?") and pay more to fix the problem is loopy. We are all in this situation - we are all going to have to eat a bit of the shit sandwich to get out of it or we will all die in it.

[heartblock]

Well - the UN thinks that.

'Reliable, accessible and affordable public transportation reduces pollution and traffic and promotes productivity and inclusion. Access is measured as the share of the population within 500 metres walking distance of low-capacity transport systems (buses and trams) and 1,000 metres distance to high-capacity systems (trains, subways and ferries. Because most trips involve a combination of several modes of transport, cities need to provide multi-modal transport systems and address modal integration as a major component of any urban mobility strategy. For example, high-capacity public transport systems ? metro, light rail, or bus rapid transit (BRT) ? need to be integrated with other forms of public transport that serve as feeder services to ensure full utilization of their conveyance capacity. Emphasis is therefore to be placed on ?last mile access,? to allow residents easy access to the public transport system'

I think I agree.

[Spartacus]

Billy, the real issue is that people won't give up cars unless there are viable alternative services, as highlighted by heart block.

The improvement to public transport needs to be either before or in parallel to reducing car usage.

It's not acceptable to give up something that currently works for something that just isn't there, within a short time people will revert.

So saying give up your car and buses will run faster isn't the right way. However saying there's more buses so it's easier to give up your car is.

As a couple of observations, during school holidays when buses are on emptier roads, they don't run faster or more frequently as "this bus is being held to regulate the service"

And

Unicorn farts are the worst for pollution, stop using your flying chariot for Grud's sake and be environmentally responsible 😱

[Pugwash]

Due to a leg injury I have not been able to get in or drive my car for over 2 months.Hubby has been doing weekly shopping at DKH Sainsbury's and getting a cab home (approx ?9 a time) I have not been able to do child minding of my grandchildren as although I can get on a bus for short journeys, I would not be able to get into my daughter's car at the end of a train journey as there is a limited bus service in Sussex where she lives.

Whilst I could possibly reduce drastically my car usage around ED, I would need to take 3/4 buses plus a mile uphill walk to visit one daughter in Kent, it would also take 2 buses and another mile or so walk uphill to visit my best friend.

With many family and friends scattered around Kent, Sussex and Essex where transport links are poor, it is essential to drive a car - I would not be prepared to give up my car but fully appreciate that within London it is possible to use public transport for 80% of journeys.

[Rockets]

It is increasingly delusional to also suggest that cycling is the solution to London's congestion problems. The big issue is, of course, that the council has wedded themselves to the cycling solves all issues narrative and has so jumped on the boat that they have wasted huge amounts of tax payers money into schemes that totally failed to deliver....

... but they keep telling us to wait for them to bed in when all the data shows cycling (despite the money put into it) is at its lowest for a long time in London.

[macutd]

Yes and cycling will get used less as we move into winter with rain and cold weather!!

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It is increasingly delusional to also suggest that

> cycling is the solution to London's congestion

> problems. The big issue is, of course, that the

> council has wedded themselves to the cycling

> solves all issues narrative and has so jumped on

> the boat that they have wasted huge amounts of tax

> payers money into schemes that totally failed to

> deliver....

>

> ... but they keep telling us to wait for them to

> bed in when all the data shows cycling (despite

> the money put into it) is at its lowest for a long

> time in London.

[RoundTable]

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Due to a leg injury I have not been able to get in

> or drive my car for over 2 months.Hubby has been

> doing weekly shopping at DKH Sainsbury's and

> getting a cab home (approx ?9 a time) I have not

> been able to do child minding of my grandchildren

> as although I can get on a bus for short journeys,

> I would not be able to get into my daughter's car

> at the end of a train journey as there is a

> limited bus service in Sussex where she lives.

>

> Whilst I could possibly reduce drastically my car

> usage around ED, I would need to take 3/4 buses

> plus a mile uphill walk to visit one daughter in

> Kent, it would also take 2 buses and another mile

> or so walk uphill to visit my best friend.

>

> With many family and friends scattered around

> Kent, Sussex and Essex where transport links are

> poor, it is essential to drive a car - I would not

> be prepared to give up my car but fully appreciate

> that within London it is possible to use public

> transport for 80% of journeys.

Easy solution; take your car and fling it to outside the M25. Cycle to where your car has landed, and drive to your family. When you are done visiting, fling is back to SE22, pick up your bike, and cycle back home. Easy peasy. Who says LTNs don?t work?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It is increasingly delusional to also suggest that

> cycling is the solution to London's congestion

> problems.

It?s delusional to think that cars are the solution to London?s congestion problems.

[Spartacus]

You're right rah x3, but nor is cycling

They are both part of a wider solution that also needs massive public transport investment and that's the crux of this problem.

No one is willing to commit to massive investment so the cheapest and quickest idea is implemented which just won't tempt people our of cars but does tick the "we're trying" box.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of public private push which was how the UK rail networks were built.

But not in the same way we privatised the railways where profits are the goal to running a franchise, more of a you build it and run it and the government will clear all red tape to make it happen style of approach.

But that's just one possibility out if many.

[first mate]

There is also the issue that many pushing LTNs also own a car. Why?

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It is increasingly delusional to also suggest

> that

> > cycling is the solution to London's congestion

> > problems.

>

> It?s delusional to think that cars are the

> solution to London?s congestion problems.

[Abe_froeman]

There are so many alternatives that would increase public transport amenity but the cycle lobby have somehow got the council's ear and persuaded them that these LTNs (that go nowhere) will force everyone to see the light and take up cycling.

They could have improved the buses on East Dulwich Grove and Lordship Lane by taking out some parking and putting a bus lane right down the middle of the road, that operates one way in the morning rush hour and the other way in the evening.

All those car drivers sitting in a queue of traffic being overtaken by bus after bus after bus might then think again about taking their children to school in the car.

[sally buying]

How do people get off the bus from the middle lane to the pavement?

[redpost]

Passengers float through the ether, just like the displaced parked cars

[heartblock]

LTNs and the idea that that cycling is the answer is to divert attention away from the crisis in public transport. Only clean, regular and cheap public transport will reduce dependence on the car.

The data shown no significant increase in cycling since 2018, cycling is great as is walking, I tend to walk any journey that takes 45min.

So now LTNs are in why aren?t the LTN campaigners asking for cheaper better public transport, instead of having celebrations on how lovely their new space is? Because in reality it isn?t about reducing car use or pollution, it?s about having a nice, quiet road for a select, wealthy few.