LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[macutd]

Well said Tiddles, I totally agree.

tiddles Wrote:

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> I am amazed that our local councillors are

> presiding over a project that has caused so much

> anger, divided communities , damaged local small

> businesses after a really awful time abs to cap it

> all - caused horrific increases in pollution to

> the majority of our community. There are a number

> of streets that house very wealthy people - wide

> streets, large front gardens, but key routes that

> are now very quiet. I know several businesses and

> residents in the shut off streets of DV - business

> has dropped, and the residents hate being trapped.

> There is no allowance for care workers or social

> care.

> If anyone can tell me this is all fine then I am

> flummoxed. I have contacted councillors and it?s

> like dealing with a programmed robot.

[Penguin68]

I am amazed that our local councillors are presiding...

I'm not.

[slarti b]

@DulwichCentral

So you seem to accept that your original quotation was out-of-date misleading. Thank you.

By all means lets have a discussion but please stop makig alarmist, irrelevant or, as in the case of many claims from OSUtwark and our local Councillors, frankly incoprrect claims.

[Metallic]

tiddles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am amazed that our local councillors are

> presiding over a project that has caused so much

> anger, divided communities , damaged local small

> businesses after a really awful time abs to cap it

> all - caused horrific increases in pollution to

> the majority of our community. There are a number

> of streets that house very wealthy people - wide

> streets, large front gardens, but key routes that

> are now very quiet. I know several businesses and

> residents in the shut off streets of DV - business

> has dropped, and the residents hate being trapped.

> There is no allowance for care workers or social

> care.

> If anyone can tell me this is all fine then I am

> flummoxed. I have contacted councillors and it?s

> like dealing with a programmed robot.

They are automatons doing as they are told. Like many others who have drunk the Kool Aid, they have cars.

[AylwardS]

I believe the consultation on the Dulwich road measures has been mentioned on here but if you need details it is open until 11 July https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/dulwich-review/

I may have missed this on a post on this thread, and if so apologies, but as I walked along East Dulwich Grove today I had a thought that a one way system might work for the Council and for those using the roads. Although I live in the area and walk down Melbourne Grove every week I?ve not driven down it for years - since the footway parking was removed.

Elsie Road could stay closed off - this is used by children to access the primary school. Derwent Grove and Melbourne Grove could be reopened and made one way in opposite directions. This would halve traffic on each of these roads, reduce traffic on East Dulwich Grove and provide access to businesses / parking. The older children should have / need to develop road sense.

We live in London and its never going to be traffic free. The status quo doesn?t work. Closing streets to traffic, with timed restrictions or planters, doesn?t work for all locations.

[alice]

One way Melbourne towards Kings would allow ambulances to avoid Lordship Lane. Excellent idea.

[Rockets]

The council is organising some meetings to discuss the closures - the first is this Sunday.

Council meetings on the closures: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dulwich-streetspace-review-community-meetings-tickets-153435899907

Community Meetings to discuss the Highways schemes in Dulwich

About this event

We want to hear from as many people as possible in the local community - what are your views on the current Highways measures in Dulwich Village, East Dulwich and Champion Hill, and what would you like to see in the future?

We have scheduled 3 online meetings during the consultation period:-

1. Sunday 23rd May - the council will discuss the highways schemes, our aims and objectives.

2. Wednesday 26th May - we want to hear the views of the public and different stakeholder groups.

3. Saturday 19th June - we will break into smaller groups and look at the issues and challenges in greater detail - so everyone should get a chance to speak.

Please register your interest here and provide your email address - the link to the meeting will be sent out on the day and will come from [email protected] (please check your Junk folder)

[mr.chicken]

alice Wrote:

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> One way Melbourne towards Kings would allow

> ambulances to avoid Lordship Lane. Excellent idea.

When are people going to understand? Cars are much more important then emergency vehicles, so if a barrier is open to ambulances then we must allow cars too. We cannot allow the idea of making a barrier permeable to emergency vehicles.

[alice]

The best way to make a barrier permeable is to remove it.

Anything else wastes time.

[Rockets]

Does anyone know why in 99% of other places the LTN barriers have been made permeable for emergency services yet in Dulwich Village they persist with immovable barriers - what is the rationale behind that - they made the Melbourne Grove barriers permeable?

Is it because the grand plans for the "Square" would not be possible if the emergency services need to have access?

[exdulwicher]

Does anyone know why in 99% of other places the LTN barriers have been made permeable for emergency services yet in Dulwich Village they persist with immovable barriers - what is the rationale behind that - they made the Melbourne Grove barriers permeable?

Options include:

emergency services haven't asked for it / recommended it to date

insufficient funding for the ANPR equipment and installation at the moment

there's some kind of review / consultation that needs to present its findings before they commit to anything

it's on the to-do list but not yet got a work date

they have more permanent plans for "The Square" which means that ANPR installation now would be a waste of time

You can probably find out from the council or from LAS / LFB if emergency services have provided any feedback, recommendations, advice etc on that particular location.

[alice]

answering your options:

- they have asked

- 2.5million available from penalty fines

- as they were installed during covid emergency wihout consultation they can be now removed without consulation.

- hard to believe - its a couple of hours work.

- depends who you mean by 'they'

[first mate]

Sounds familiar!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/21/trouble-cyclists-paradise-amsterdam-accused-favouring-pedestrians

[heartblock]

The infamous square will... if it stays, make it a no through for cyclists in case little Chlamydia or Epididymis is knocked over by a Lycra clad king of the road.

[Pugwash]

Hubby had to take a taxi from town yesterday as all bus routes he needed to go on were not going south of the river (he could not find any notices/people to ask where they had been redirected to) Chatting to the taxi driver, Croxted Road was mentioned - it would appear that many taxi drivers will not take fares if they have to use this route as delays are up to an hour some days.

[alice]

For some. It was never about bikes.

[mr.chicken]

alice Wrote:

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> The best way to make a barrier permeable is to

> remove it.

>

> Anything else wastes time.

Exactly! We both agree that cars are more important than emergency vehicles. If the cars have to waste time sitting in traffic then like you, I demand that emergency vehicles should too. There must be no special access to low traffic roads for ambulances. If they can use roads, I can too.

heartblock Wrote:

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> The infamous square will... if it stays, make it a

> no through for cyclists in case little Chlamydia

> or Epididymis is knocked over by a Lycra clad king

> of the road.

Those Lycra Clad Kings of the road are just plain evil. I can't stand the way they have the temerity to get in the way of my motor vehicle on my roads! I will never give them the time of day, and yet I can feel them judging me, always judging judging judging. We should stop at nothing to rid ourselves of them. Plus they're massively and I might add unfairly skewing the results of the LTN consultations by being in favour of them. I think if we could remove them from the process we could get a majority of support for removing LTNs.

[redpost]

Pugwash Wrote:

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> Hubby had to take a taxi from town yesterday as

> all bus routes he needed to go on were not going

> south of the river (he could not find any

> notices/people to ask where they had been

> redirected to) Chatting to the taxi driver,

> Croxted Road was mentioned - it would appear that

> many taxi drivers will not take fares if they have

> to use this route as delays are up to an hour some

> days.

Uhm, most drivers are desperate for work - some black cabs are queueing at heathrow 12-18 hours for a fare. They get paid whether moving or not.

[rupert james]

Who pays the cabbies wages if they are just sitting there?

Thought they were self employed.

[intexasatthe moment]

I think if you hire a black cab the length of time that the journey takes is a factor in the price .So the cusyomer pays if cab queing/stuck in traffic .

Could be wrong .

[rupert james]

.

[heartblock]

So, is it true as reported, that in Sept 2020 the London Ambulance Service reported delays to life threatening emergencies and asked for Southwark Council to remove the hard closures in Calton, Derwent and Melbourne? Citing traffic jams on Grove, EDG and Croxted and no alternative routes.

[mr.chicken]

heartblock Wrote:

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> So, is it true as reported, that in Sept 2020 the

> London Ambulance Service reported delays to life

> threatening emergencies and asked for Southwark

> Council to remove the hard closures in Calton,

> Derwent and Melbourne? Citing traffic jams on

> Grove, EDG and Croxted and no alternative routes.

I'm wondering if you as a One Dulwicher could help me out here? You see I broke my principles and actually talked to one of those lycra clad kings of the road. A bit of a sin I know but all that lycra just really got me going, you know? I know you know! That lycra gets you going too as you have commented. Anyway I didn't enjoy the conversation because he had a point I wasn't really able to counter and I was wondering if you could help so I can win the argument next time.

You see he said that if the closures remained but were accessible to emergency vehicles in an emergency then not only could emergency vehicles use the routes, but they'd be guaranteed to be almost completely car free, thereby allowing swift passage. He then pointed out that as we get rid of more and more cars, life will get easier and easier for emergency vehicles.

This got me angrier than a timed closure when I want to pop quickly to the shops. Like you and Alice, I know in my heart that it is right that cars should be able to use those routes, especially if ambulances can, but I just didn't have the words. Every time I argued about ambulances he said closed routes with ambulance gates would be faster because no cars would be in the way. This cannot be right!

Help me out here, what should i say next time?

[first mate]

Well, so far, this has not been contradicted, so I guess we can conclude it is true.

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So, is it true as reported, that in Sept 2020 the

> London Ambulance Service reported delays to life

> threatening emergencies and asked for Southwark

> Council to remove the hard closures in Calton,

> Derwent and Melbourne? Citing traffic jams on

> Grove, EDG and Croxted and no alternative routes.

[mr.chicken]

first mate Wrote:

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> Well, so far, this has not been contradicted, so I

> guess we can conclude it is true.

If lycra clad road kings can't contradict an uncited post within 12 hours at night it is clear to me and every anti LTN activist that they must agree with it. Therefore I declare your analysis to be correct.

This is what we must do if we want to win on LTNs. We must do all we can to rule out input from the lycra clad kings of the road. After all we both know their opinions don't count so we must make sure they are not counted. That is the only fair and equitable thing to do.