LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Otto2]

And here is a reply - seems a bit more complex, as everything on this topic is...

"I found the FOI but can't find that quote anywhere. Bus journey times were up to the end of March but congestion looks comparable to, or lower than last March. Would be interested to see what it's like now:" https://foi.tfl.gov.uk/FOI-0115-2122/Dulwich%20Village%20SCOOT%20Analysis%20-%2026th%20Mar.pdf

from:

[Bicknell]

this help maybe @otto2?

[Otto2]

Ah thanks - I see now that the quote is not from the FOI as it appears to be referenced in the graphic in the tweet. Thanks for clearing that up.

The complexity I was speaking of was more re: the latter part of LL's comment --

"...Bus journey times were up to the end of March but congestion looks comparable to, or lower than last March. Would be interested to see what it's like now."

And the data is interesting - I agree more data since March would be good to see.

https://foi.tfl.gov.uk/FOI-0115-2122/Dulwich%20Village%20SCOOT%20Analysis%20-%2026th%20Mar.pdf

[alice]

Sometimes we want to dig down to details to prove a fact. That?s fine but there are principles that underpin decisions about action.

That the Dulwich LTNs benefit those already wealthy at the expense of those less privileged is undisputed. How does that fit with Southwark?s Fairer Futures Initiative? (Ps it doesn?t)

[DulwichCentral]

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sometimes we want to dig down to details to prove

> a fact. That?s fine but there are principles that

> underpin decisions about action.

> That the Dulwich LTNs benefit those already

> wealthy at the expense of those less privileged is

> undisputed. How does that fit with Southwark?s

> Fairer Futures Initiative? (Ps it doesn?t)

'Principles that underpin decisions to act' Hopefully decisions are based on fact as well as principles?

There are houses on EDG with the tone-deaf 'all streets matter' posters who have 3 or 4 cars in their driveway. One has a range rover, a sports car and two less flashy cars. Are these the less privileged you refer to?

In fact all the houses I've seen posters in are expensive houses. Are you saying all these wealthy multiple car owners are acting purely on altruistic principles? If so I admire your faith in human nature ;)

But anyway what about people who can't afford a car but get around by bike? Do they not count in the Fairer Futures Initiative?

[Bicknell]

forgot to say @siduhe that i thoght it was a great post too

thank you

[alice]

Dulwich C. I should have said principles and logic. Your response has neither.

[karimdiatoubajie]

Hi Everyone 🙌🏾 I posted this in another thread but thought its worth sharing here too:

Would anyone who is severely affected by the local LTNs like to try out an Electric Cargobike? I was really interested to see if these new modes of transport would really help being a regular car user myself.

Since September 2020 I've been testing out a Tern GSD to try out different scenarios many which cross all the local LTNs. Previous to the LTNs I was only using a car for most local trips. Here are some examples of trips I've not used a car:

-Taking wife and daughter to Oxford Street (parking outside the shops) and back with Shopping

-Carrying a Christmas Tree through the village from the Alleyn Garden Centre to East Dulwich (video:

)

-Regular trips to sport activities with child (in West Norwood)

-Going to the Southwark Recycling Centre

-Carrying 100kg of Books to the Charity Shop

-Dropping some IKEA Shelves to a local resident

-Carrying 50kg of shopping from Sainsburys

-Carrying my 80 year old father-in-law who is registered disabled to the coffee shop.

-Carrying another bike to the bike shop

I think right now I am able to use this for about 90% of my local trips, I honestly never thought this would be possible. Not only that, but all the trips I've tried it for are faster (the bike is still assisted upto 16mph), cheaper and more pleasant that the car trips i was making before the LTNS even existed. I calculated I am saving about ?1,500 in fuel alone per year.

If anyone who is affected wants to have a go on mine they are more than welcome, just let me know. I also have various attachments based on what needs you might have e.g. transporting shopping, children, tools, another adult (max load is 250kg)...

[tiddles]

Where do you store it

[mr.chicken]

alice Wrote:

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> That the Dulwich LTNs benefit those already

> wealthy at the expense of those less privileged is

> undisputed.

Absolutely agree, with multiple cars per household poor people now are spending even more time in their SUVs stuck in traffic. Improving journey times for the P4 is disgustingly elitist, because it only benefits those inhabitants of Dulwich Village who have a bus stop right outside their huge houses. I see so many rolexes and "all streets matter" pins on that bus, it turns my stomach. Anyway it's just logical that the problem of traffic will fix itself if we simply leave it. After all traffic and congestion has been decreasing steadily for the last 30 years.

[heartblock]

I think the cargo bike is great. The traffic on ED Grove isn?t from people who live on the rd unfortunately. Also as most are small flats, with no gardens and a shared small hallway entrance storage would be an issue. Car ownership is low on the Grove, it is much higher in the LTNs, as an example many multi-vechicle owning houses in Calton.

Dulwich also is one of the three boroughs with the highest percentage of active travel (mainly walking) for local journeys. In the LTN literature from Southwark, it does also say that it is expected that traffic and pollution will increase on boundary rds.

They also state that dealing and reducing this rise in pollution is not within the scope of the plan... so basically they don?t care about the boundary roads and they knew they would suffer more pollution.

[Otto2]

Storage is an issue. We are a household of 4 cyclists with no car. We have two in a bike hangar. Our cargo bike is currently parked in the living room, looking out enviously at the car spots out front. We have requested a new hangar that can house a cargo bike from cyclehoop/council. I'll see if I can dig up the link to request a bike hangar on your street and edit it in here later -- you can add in that you'd like one to accommodate a cargo bike in the notes.

Ah - here is all the info in this tweet thread:

Also - if you don't have space for a cargo bike but need to move things occasionally, the guys at PedalMe can carry anything for you - including fridges as well as doing house moves by giant cargo bikes and they are often cheaper than the man with the van enterprises.

[exdulwicher]

Storage is an issue. We are a household of 4 cyclists with no car. We have two in a bike hangar. Our cargo bike is currently parked in the living room, looking out enviously at the car spots out front.

Did you see this story from Leicester?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-57077470

Apparently, an eco wooden shed with a living roof in a front garden is not part of the Victorian heritage. Which prompted a lot of comments about the satellite dishes and parked cars everywhere...

Link here about asking for Cycle Hangers / Storage from Southwark:

https://southwarkcyclists.org.uk/cycle-parking-guide/

[legalalien]

Just be warned that there are quite long waiting lists for hangars in this part of the borough - info as of Feb is in this document

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/b50012774/Supplement%20One%20Thursday%2025-Mar-2021%2018.30%20Environment%20Scrutiny%20Commission.pdf?T=9

[northernmonkey]

Its true that the wait for hangers is ridiculous. Southwark know this yet their response is another consultation to let them know where people want hangers. Perhaps they could use some of the fines income to pay for a rapid roll out of bike hangers, with initial priority for streets where lots of people have no outside space or front gardens / driveways?

[Rockets]

Otto2 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Storage is an issue. We are a household of 4

> cyclists with no car. We have two in a bike

> hangar. Our cargo bike is currently parked in the

> living room, looking out enviously at the car

> spots out front. We have requested a new hangar

> that can house a cargo bike from

> cyclehoop/council. I'll see if I can dig up the

> link to request a bike hangar on your street and

> edit it in here later -- you can add in that you'd

> like one to accommodate a cargo bike in the

> notes.

>

> Ah - here is all the info in this tweet thread:

>

> https://twitter.com/cyclehoop/status/1380092582705

> 909761?s=20

>

> Also - if you don't have space for a cargo bike

> but need to move things occasionally, the guys at

> PedalMe can carry anything for you - including

> fridges as well as doing house moves by giant

> cargo bikes and they are often cheaper than the

> man with the van enterprises.

Otto2 - completely agree that storage is a massive issue (not just for cargo bikes) and one the council has failed to adequately address and they massively missed an opportunity to enable more modal shift to cycling.

Look at the stats - back in 2018 68% of all local journeys in Dulwich were by foot or bike but only 3% were on bike. If we are a typical family then I think I know why - we walk all the time to Lordship Lane and have never thought of cycling - why? Because there is no where to park our bikes. I really wish the council had analysed the data they had in 2018 and looked at why so few of those local journeys were on bike and made infrastructure changes then things would be a lot easier for families like ours to use bikes more.

We have been trying to get cycle hangars on our street for years but to no avail - you have to question whether this was a massive missed opportunity by the council.

Cargo bikes are a great solution and allow people to make that change. Yes, they are expensive but against the cost of owning and running a car they aren't - if you can make the shift. And that's where so many people will struggle due to the lack of infrastructure provided by the council.

Even though cycle hangars can store a cargo bike it looks like they take up numerous spaces from the twitter thread you linked that could store normal bikes (correct me if I am wrong) and there are not nearly enough cycle hangars to satiate the demand for normal bikes yet alone cargo bikes.

The council really should have been doing far more over the last 18 months to provide cycle infrastructure rather than throwing money at closing roads and the infrastructure to police that.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Or / and they should be encouraging e-hire bikes (such as Lime etc) which can be picked up and left at your destination without having to actually own your own bike. Would enable a lot more people to make short journeys easily and conveniently. Brent did a deal with Lime to bring them to their area.

If you added in a segregated bike lane down EDG to connect to Railton LTN and the tube at Brixton, it would massively reduce journey times into central London from these parts.

[Nigello]

Lime bikes can be (and are) left willy nilly on pavements by inconsiderate hirers which is bad news for pedestrians and/or those with certain disabilities. It?s rare I see one placed unobtrusively on the pavement.

[Rockets]

Rahx3 they most definitely should but e-bikes and e-scooters do come with a whole host of unique challenges. As someone who has visited Munich a lot I am shocked by the numbers of e-bikes and e-scooters that are left in clusters all over parts of the city - I believe a lot of that was due to rapid re-regulation and a host of operators rushing in to try to make money so hopefully London's approach will be more controlled.

[ab29]

Agree with Rockets - already the bikes are being left all over the place e.g. in a middle of a pavement which is a trip hazard. Blind & partially sighted society has been worrying about this.

[Otto2]

What do you think is the best way to make bikes easy to use? They def are smaller than cars so more on street parking would be beneficial and space-effective. What else would be good?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Otto2 Wrote:

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> What do you think is the best way to make bikes

> easy to use? They def are smaller than cars so

> more on street parking would be beneficial and

> space-effective. What else would be good?

That?s pretty much it. On street bike parking. Problem solved

[heartblock]

On street parking and bike hangers. I walk and use public transport in the main, probably 4-8 car journeys a year visiting people out of London. I bought a lovely bike 11 years ago but when I cycled anywhere locally could not find anywhere safe to park. A friend of mine was so used to his bike being stolen he had two padlocks and used to lock his bike on the railings of private dwellings and institutions to my embarrassment.

I have nervously continued cycling but don?t use to commute, firstly because ED Grove is a mare during school drop off and secondly I don?t trust any of the current bike parks.

Leyton has an enclosed bike park near the tube station, one of those near each train station (and Herne Hill) would be great.

[Earl Aelfheah]

So agree with this. the Finsbury Park bike facility is great. Would be good to have something Similar at Brixton tube. Good facilities at Peckham Rye though.

[Spartacus]

Amazing twist on the upcoming consultation (see the attached document)

No minimum age for responding to the consultation and stakeholders both inside and outside of the Dulwich area scheme are able to respond.

The cynic in me wonders if, for example, let's say a school teacher asks his pupils who are outside of the area to write a response to the scheme as part of their homework.

I also have to question how easy it will be to verify that a person under 18 actually exists, as they aren't in the electoral register and we've all heard stories of families incorrectly claiming things like universal credit for non existent children.

Of course I'm not saying anyone would deliberately manipulate responses but it is open to abuse if someone was so inclined.