LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[ab29]

'Giving it more time'?? In what kind or parallel universe some of you live in? Oh I see - sitting in your quiet house on the recently closed road, not giving a damn about anyone else!

Sorry Legal, I know this is exactly the language you want to avoid here but I find it absolutely infuriating - being directly affected by the b****y closures an yet being told by the few know-it-all again and again that this is not true!

@Otto: why do you think it is ok to treat me and thousands of others like second class citizens and treat us with extra pollution and noise?? What would you do if your home/road was affected - would you sit there quietly, pondering philosophically on the fact that it may or may not get better in few years time?

No one ever asked me what I think about the planning closures or how my life has been affected by it. Did the consultation contain questions such us 'Are you happy with the traffic to be much worst on your road in the next few years and perhaps never improve?' - no, no one asked that.

You can close a road only if you have a spare, empty one where you can re-direct the existing traffic, otherwise is just an inhumane experimenting on living organism.

Totally agree with what Concerned wrote above; I work in one of the nearby hospitals and we've been discussing the so-called LTNs a lot - people are worried.

[Concerned2021]

My road has suffered from a huge increase in traffic which is likely to get worse if more roads are closed. Since the council only appear to be monitoring traffic in LTN?s, I?m considering purchasing one of these:

https://shapebetterstreets.org/2021/02/02/telraam-traffic-counters-coming-to-crystal-palace/

[Peckham Park]

I?ve always thought that the best way to determine the impact of these changes was through the data available from mobile phone apps such as Waze, TomTom or google maps. If you could capture a map of the area to show traffic densities in colour as a moving image over time, it would be a very powerful and irrefutable argument for the impact of the various measures for or against the councils road management policies. It appears TfL use this data, and there are many articles about how it can be used at a granular level for even incidents occurring on a single day. All the petitions, surveys and consultations mean nothing. Only hard data can win the argument that these road traffic measures need to be amended or removed. I attach an interesting article from Wired

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/waze-uk-london

[heartblock]

Maybe Southwark could remove the current LTNs and make sections of the boundary roads LTNs and then see how attitudes change.

Calton and Court are nice and wide and could easily take a bus, especially if not used as an overflow car park for the 2nd or 3rd household vehicle. Don?t worry the traffic will apparently disappear.......

[Otto2]

"@Otto: why do you think it is ok to treat me and thousands of others like second class citizens and treat us with extra pollution and noise?? What would you do if your home/road was affected - would you sit there quietly, pondering philosophically on the fact that it may or may not get better in few years time? "

I do not live in an LTN. I live super nearby an A road that had an increase in traffic in the very beginning (and mine did as well - at least 10x), and, being severely asthmatic, I was affected. Since then, it has quieted down tremendously. I know when schools go back and more people start to go to work it will pick up but I've lived here a long time and the road I am adjacent to has always had periods of high traffic - concentrated around school run times.

[ab29]

Excellent idea

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe Southwark could remove the current LTNs and

> make sections of the boundary roads LTNs and then

> see how attitudes change.

>

> Calton and Court are nice and wide and could

> easily take a bus, especially if not used as an

> overflow car park for the 2nd or 3rd household

> vehicle. Don?t worry the traffic will apparently

> disappear.......

[Concerned2021]

Alternatively open up the closed roads and restrict traffic on bus roads? This is likely to have a much greater affect on use of public transport if the journey is quicker by bus than car.

[Concerned2021]

Sorry forgot to add during peak times only..

[heartblock]

LTNs..

[alice]

Reroute p4 down court lane, would avoid south circular and more people?d use it.

[Nigello]

Yes, especially if it were a hail-and-ride service along Court Lane. If it were only buses and local traffic it wouldn't cause snarl ups and would be more attractive to users.

[heartblock]

I have lived here so long that I remember that the majority wanted more public transport in Dulwich Village, so people without cars could get around. There was a big push from Villagers that they didn?t want buses down Calton/ Court etc as they all had cars and big buses would bring the tone of the Village down, so it was only the little P4 allowed. They also campaigned against bus stops for the same reason. Now they have their lovely gated communities too. Divisive, clean air for the wealthy and pollution for the less well off. Southwark Labour deserves to lose the control of this borough for abandoning the poorest to make gestures towards reducing pollution that do not work and actually make the lives of the least well off, who live on roads such as Croxted, EDG and LL less healthy.

[SE22_2020er]

I've had a brilliant idea to solve the problem. DRIVE LESS!!!!

I think the one thing that everyone agrees on this thread is that there is too much pollution caused by people driving. No-one has said that they want to see more cars on the road. Or have I missed those posts?

So, what you should be doing fellow posters is focussing on the root cause of the problem which is too many people driving and not enough people using public transport and active transport (walking and cycling).

Am I the only one who is keeping their fingers crossed that we will get the congestion charge implemented soon so that people who pollute are financially penalised for their pollution?

[heartblock]

?While on the subject of public transport in Dulwich, you may be interested to know that until the 1960s there was no bus service running through the centre of the village. The P4 route did not start until 1972. It was considered by the Estates Governors that buses would only spoil the idyllic peace of the rural setting. Even then, the Estates Governors only permitted single-deckers to operate on the route which runs from Brixton, via Dulwich and Honor Oak to Lewisham. The first few years of the service used a ?Hoppa? bus. Although the vehicles are now larger ? to hold more people ? the rule about single-decker buses through the village is still enforced over 40 years later!? from know your London.

And .. yes, drive less, especially now my road is a boundary road and has all that additional traffic.

[malumbu]

Nothing to do with the thread but some light relief - the 'governors' control over Dulwich Village, my fave was no cashpoints (I expect the former Barclays was one of the few in the country without one). How quaint! Hope nobody proves me wrong on cashpoints as went to the Dog maybe ten years ago and they didn't take cards and had a fee cashpoint inside the pub so we didn't bother.

[legalalien]

I don?t think people are going to disagree on this thread - they just don?t think the particular configuration of closures in this area are an acceptable tool to encourage people to drive less, because of the collateral damage.

I?m not going to drive less, though, as I don?t have a licence and don?t drive :)

SE22_2020er Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've had a brilliant idea to solve the problem.

> DRIVE LESS!!!!

>

> I think the one thing that everyone agrees on this

> thread is that there is too much pollution caused

> by people driving. No-one has said that they

> want to see more cars on the road. Or have I

> missed those posts?

>

> So, what you should be doing fellow posters is

> focussing on the root cause of the problem which

> is too many people driving and not enough people

> using public transport and active transport

> (walking and cycling).

>

> Am I the only one who is keeping their fingers

> crossed that we will get the congestion charge

> implemented soon so that people who pollute are

> financially penalised for their pollution?

[Metallic]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nothing to do with the thread but some light

> relief - the 'governors' control over Dulwich

> Village, my fave was no cashpoints (I expect the

> former Barclays was one of the few in the country

> without one). How quaint! Hope nobody proves me

> wrong on cashpoints as went to the Dog maybe ten

> years ago and they didn't take cards and had a fee

> cashpoint inside the pub so we didn't bother.

Barclay's Bank was in a listed building so could only have one inside which presumably they thought was a waste of money.

[alice]

Who decides bus routes? Tfl? Southwark? Dulwich estates? I am sure not the latter.

[heartblock]

The bus stop was allowed near the park, but it had to be a special one so as not to offend the sensibilities of the wealthy. About time that we had proper local transport plan and consider routes and cycle lanes in Dulwich, North, West and East. Have a Southwark wide consultation to consider pedestrianisation taking into account equality measures. Just DO IT PROPERLY!

[Nigello]

Micro buses? An every-fifteen-minutes service linking E, N and W Dulwich stations could help, no? I think such small-scale buses would appeal to that very same sense of "community" that is so fashionable nowadays (but is also fetishised and badly mimicked).

[heartblock]

Court lane and Calton Ave are very wide roads, could easily take a local small bus route.

[Nigello]

Yes, and the homes on both sides of Dulwich Village are set at least the width of both lanes, more on the "posher" side, so sound of engines (if they weren't electric/hybrid) wouldn't be much of a problem.

[alice]

They are wider than East Dulwich Grove and Underhill rd.

If east/ west driving is to be reduced public transport must be improved.

[Penguin68]

Have a Southwark wide consultation to consider pedestrianisation taking into account equality measures. Just DO IT PROPERLY!

NO - Absolutely don't! The North of Southwark (flat, well served by public transport, far fewer cars owned or needed) is very different from the South (the old Borough of Camberwell) - there are no 'one-size fits all' solutions. By all means have a consultation in hilly, poorly served Camberwell - and find solutions that make sense for us. The North of the Borough (the original Southwark) has different problems, and will need different solutions, to us. But if our problems are only seen through the prism of Tooley St. we will have nothing that suits.

[heartblock]

Absolutely Penguin...local consultation. It would be lovely to have some of LL pedestrianised... not sure how it would work, but shutting off Calton and Court is ridiculous...they were made as wide carriage roads, not private roads for the wealthy. Need a nice double decker and a few bus stops. It is not the countryside people, the countryside is where all their second homes are :)