LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Peckham Park]

I see the Southwark Council petition closed on the 21/12 with over 3,000 active local resident signatures. What more information does the Council need that these road closures must be reversed

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=500000049&RPID=774261212&HPID=774261212&$LO$=1

Those in favour of the road closures should set up their own epetition, and if you even get 500 votes I?d be amazed!

[Pugwash]

I am a car owner and driver. If I want to shop in LL I will use the bus, however if doing the weekly shop at Salisbury's DKH I will use the car as I cannot carry all the bags.

I can walk but find after about 15/20 minutes my arthritis plays up. I have also had a number of falls over the past year, last being in the street where small paving slabs were uneven and I went flying. Severe bruising of ribs and shoulder.I walk slowly with a stick as I am checking the surface for dips etc, this is not helped by cyclists riding on the pavements especially noticeable in LL and Barry Road.

Recently I had to visit the Rehabilitation Centre in Bowley Close, due to the closures in the village I could not go my usual route but had to drive to Crystal Palace, down College Road etc - making it a much longer journey.

I am in 2 minds about the closures - I can see the sense in having some road closures, but not to the extent that traffic is forced onto other roads (EDGrove/LL etc) which creates more pollution in the long run as traffic is stationary.

[johnie]

Pugwash, can I add to your pragmatic thoughts? I'm 56 and moved here 15 years ago from Brixton hill. Where we live seems idyllic (Scutari Road) as we are surrounded by greenery. I have two cars, a stupidly massive old BMW and a little MX5 Sports car. The MX5 hasn't moved all year. I'm just about to take delivery of an electric bike conversion kit slow-boated from China. I have always cycled in London, and the cars are just for long journeys, or sentimental. Neither has done more than five thousand miles over five years.

Yet I am deeply worried that these are the wrong things to do (shut key routes). I'm not going to add to the arguments already given, just to say the concentration of traffic is awful, whereas dispersion may be better. 20 years ago roads were closed to stop "rat runs", and I saw my own road become twice as busy as a result.

I've recently been cycling to the Thames with my very nervous twelve-year-old daughter as it is now so easy, with Rye lane a dream, and I love it. Yet if there are key workers screwed getting to the needy we have to become flexible. other countries are doing it I have been told.

My single keyboard stabby finger is now tired and needs a rest.

[Bicknell]

A link to the e-petition - no to 24/7 closures, Yes to permits. I 'd be happy if just ambulances allowed through. Others might disagree. its about getting the council to agree there might be other, fairer solutions.

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=500000057&RPID=774265785&HPID=774265785

[Pugwash]

I have difficulty in even getting on a bike due to the arthritis, even hubby who has cycled all his life now finds he cannot lift his leg over any bike frame due to knee and hip arthritis. I used to cycle from ED to Westminster daily in the 1980s for work and used mainly back streets. I have an old Ford Focus which is regularly serviced and ideal for visiting my family in Orpington and Durrington on Sea (where we tend to stay in a Premier Inn for a few days and count this as a holiday).

Under normal circumstances I do a lot of voluntary community work,which also includes giving people lifts due to their age and/or disability.

[Spartacus]

Bicknell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A link to the e-petition - no to 24/7 closures,

> Yes to permits. I 'd be happy if just ambulances

> allowed through. Others might disagree. its about

> getting the council to agree there might be other,

> fairer solutions.

> http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDispl

> ay.aspx?ID=500000057&RPID=774265785&HPID=774265785

Can anyone explain how this will work as its short of details?

Is it area wide CPZ that ED rejected recently ?

Is it permits to drive for locals , excluding visitors and friends from coming to the area ?

Why area wide, the problem isn't area wide ?

What happens if a London wide road pricing scheme comes in, will we have to pay twice ?

Too little detail behind the concept and sounds like the airy fairy sort of scheme a council officer will try and implement via a back door.

I can't personally back this, I can back one that asks for a proper consultation involving all stakeholders and proper discussions around what is needed in the area that suits all.

[Bicknell]

@Spartacus I see it as getting Southwark to accept that what theyre doing now isnt working. Start the conversaton. Details come later. Agree we need discusions around what is needed in the area that suits all, and we have to join together to do that PS not all permits cost money. eg school streets -some people allowed through.

[legalalien]

I take the same view as Bicknell. I?m reading it as something designed to open the conversation - I don?t doubt that those who have set up the petition have their own view on a solution, but I wouldn?t want that to stop people from voicing their concern with the existing scheme. It seems designed not to split the numbers of those who disagree with the current scheme (ie it?s carefully not like Australia 1999)

[Spartacus]

The petition is too vague around how the permit scheme should work and we all know Southwark council, give them an inch and they will take a mile of road away ...

[hammerman]

johnie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pugwash, can I add to your pragmatic thoughts? I'm

> 56 and moved here 15 years ago from Brixton hill.

> Where we live seems idyllic (Scutari Road) as we

> are surrounded by greenery. I have two cars, a

> stupidly massive old BMW and a little MX5 Sports

> car. The MX5 hasn't moved all year. I'm just about

> to take delivery of an electric bike conversion

> kit slow-boated from China. I have always cycled

> in London, and the cars are just for long

> journeys, or sentimental. Neither has done more

> than five thousand miles over five years.

>

> Yet I am deeply worried that these are the wrong

> things to do (shut key routes). I'm not going to

> add to the arguments already given, just to say

> the concentration of traffic is awful, whereas

> dispersion may be better. 20 years ago roads were

> closed to stop "rat runs", and I saw my own road

> become twice as busy as a result.

>

> I've recently been cycling to the Thames with my

> very nervous twelve-year-old daughter as it is now

> so easy, with Rye lane a dream, and I love it. Yet

> if there are key workers screwed getting to the

> needy we have to become flexible. other countries

> are doing it I have been told.

>

> My single keyboard stabby finger is now tired and

> needs a rest.

I think you do need to take a rest. Rye Lane might be a dream now to cyclists but it was once up until a little while ago once a normal road for buses to transport people to the shops in the lane and beyond. We can't all walk or cycle. I really feel for the shops on the lane and feel it will become a ghost town soon.

[alice]

How many bus routes have been messed up by the changes? Here?s some p13 12 363 p4 78. Bring back buses.

[hammerman]

Yes, bring back the buses for Rye Lane and beyond! Can't believe that Southwark Council are bringing in this draconian measure to a place that has a lot of history for local people and beyond! Morrisons car park is the only place that people can park their car for a shop in their store and beyond. A few weeks ago I had to drive my hubby to park in the Morrisons car park late one evening to have a covid test in the Peckham Pulse play centre car park!

I hope that the Peckham Morrisons can continue to serve the community in the way they are.

#

[JohnL]

Certain traffic at certain times is allowed in Rye Lane - I see them removing the bollards most days.

[Nigello]

Rye Lane needs buses. It?s a wasteland at the best of times and wandering pedestrians dodging racing cyclists adds to the Mad Max feeling. Buses make it feel like a bit more like a normal high street (if you shut your eyes to avoid the vandalism and litter).

[AylwardS]

I was caught by the phase 2 restrictions in Dulwich Village today but all the LSP orders are experimental so the same six months to comment should apply. I tried to find a Phase 2 thread to post this on but gave up after checking 15 pages of search results.

If any of the restrictions are working or not working for you check out the order on https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/traffic-orders-licensing-strategies-and-regulation/traffic-management-orders?chapter=5 and there should be details of how to comment. Comments should then be taken into account before the council makes a permanent order.

I've also copied my local Councillor on the email as the Dulwich restrictions affect East Dulwich residents.

[smooch]

Can anyone confirm that northcross road is now a no through road? I have seen something on 'next door east dulwich' where someone has said this has restricted access I am surprised that no one has mentioned this if the case - and this makes moving around East dulwich completely bonkers (ie I collect regular prescriptions from Lloyds, but usually say on the way to sainsbos for the big shops. this suggest looping all around back and forth -not to mention limiting yet more the trade for the East Dulwich Shops.

[nxjen]

No one?s mentioned it cos it?s not true

ETA Actually, on reflection, that doesn?t usually stop people

[tiddles]

I?d seen that too! Glad to hear not the case.

[malumbu]

Going to the earlier discussions on bus access it is nice to have something to discuss that is not just the impact on personal driving. It would be good if buses are prioritised as well as active travel. I've not been on one since lockdown, as will now walk down to Peckham etc but not so long ago would occasionally get one into town.

The frustration to me was always those parking on double yellow lines on Rye Lane that caused regular bus congestion as they couldn't get past each other due to parked cars. A few years ago I went on a mission to try to get Southwark to enforce parking controls but gave up as was banging my head against a brick wall.

I found the Elephant and Castle new layout problematic too and Blackfriars Bridge and beyond. I am sure that more can be done to ease the flow. Delays would just mean I'd be more likely to pay a bit more and use the train/tube, but I quite liked the occasional 50 mins, with a seat, catching up on reading and earwigging on the conversations you get on the bus. Much better that sardines on the tube.

[roywj]

Did anyone see the DPD van crash on Grove Vale this morning around 10.30am? The driver was driving at high speed from Dog Kennel Hill, lost control and his back wheels spun out causing him to crash near the Cherry Tree. Glass on the road so be careful. Thankfully the road was quiet and no one hurt.

[Bicknell]

Reports of people not being able to sign eptition to southwark

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=500000057&RPID=774218585&HPID=774218585

[slarti b]

The ePetition to Southwark to replace the 24\7 closures in Dulwich Village and Melbourne Grove with timed closures can be found on the link here.

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=500000057&RPID=774300421&HPID=774300421&$LO$=1

Many people in Dulwich support action to make cycling and walking easier but feel that the current permanent closures displace traffic and cause congestion on roads surrounding Dulwich Village, are unfair for older and less mobile residents and adversely affect local busineses.

Although it has been running for only a couple of weeks over the Christmas period it is already very close to the 500 supporters needed for it to be considered at the next Council Cabinet meeting. If you support this view sign the petition now!!

[Nigello]

I just walked around the Village and thought how peevish and unimaginative it is to have closed perfectly functional streets 24/7 and do nothing else at all with them. I agree that LTNs are useful but agree that some ought to be timed, as in Court Lane/Village junction.

[Rockets]

Happy New Year all!

A few days ago we went for a family walk through Dulwich Village (we are avoiding Dulwich Park as it has become ludicrously busy recently) and wandered along Burbage Road. We saw 4 DPD vans in the space of a couple minutes - one delivering on the westbound side of Burbage as one came along the eastbound side and stopped to make a delivery, as we then hit the junction of Burbage and Turney one appeared from the small road leading to houses off that junction and then another went down Turney (we didn't see this one stop to make a delivery). It further illustrated to me that there is a big problem with logistics companies and how they currently manage deliveries - why on earth were there 4 vans (3 of which we saw actively making deliveries) when one would have sufficed. I do wonder whether the proclaimed increase in traffic is not private car use and people making short journeys but the increasing reliance on home delivery services and their inefficiencies. This was certainly validated by the Traffic in London report that we were discussing before Christmas.

[holymoly]

SlartiB. thanks for the epetition link. Signed. Does this get debated at Council?