LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[heartblock]

To be fair to James, he is the only Councillor who has responded to my concerns about LTNs and other local matters. I may disagree with him about LTNs but he has always engaged. All the others....nothing.

[legalalien]

I think the village ward councillors may only exist online. I've never seen them in the flesh - not even out canvassing. I'm not aware of a ward meeting in the last couple of years, the council webpage seems to have been updated in July to say that a date for one would be added shortly. They're supposed to have six per year (including the two South multi-ward meetings), although I think the council decided it would be reduced to two during COVID (ie only the multi ward meetings which have a very limited remit - surprising, that,at a time when constituents were likely to be vocal were a ward meeting held).

[savvygirl]

Conway are supposedly replacing paving slabs on Wood Vale/Lordship Lane end. There has been a Conway hut there for a while and stacks of paving slabs sitting alongside. Has anyone any idea when this work is due to start or will we be looking at the same thing in a year's time! It becomes a bit tricky if you walk down this side of the road and someone is coming the other way - no chance of social distancing!

[Rockets]

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think the village ward councillors may only

> exist online. I've never seen them in the flesh -

> not even out canvassing. I'm not aware of a ward

> meeting in the last couple of years, the council

> webpage seems to have been updated in July to say

> that a date for one would be added shortly.

> They're supposed to have six per year (including

> the two South multi-ward meetings), although I

> think the council decided it would be reduced to

> two during COVID (ie only the multi ward meetings

> which have a very limited remit - surprising,

> that,at a time when constituents were likely to be

> vocal were a ward meeting held).

Surely they must be able to start proper meetings again now. If you can sit in a football stadium, go to a concert or the theatre then surely councillors can start doing surgeries and meetings again?

I suspect they are using Covid as a cover to not have to face their constituents!

[slarti b]

legalalien Wrote:

...I'm not aware of a ward meeting in the last couple of years, the council webpage seems to have been updated in July to say that a date for one would be added shortly. They're supposed to have six per year (including the two South multi-ward meetings), although I think the council decided it would be reduced to two during COVID

I quite understand the difficulty of holding pysical meetings since Covid but it has certainly made it much easier for our Councillors to minimise scrutiny. The on-line zoom meetings make it much easier for them to limit debate and avoid questions.

Given tha lockdown ended 3 montsh ago there is no reason why physical meetings could not resume, probably with some sort of video link for those unable or unwilling to attend in person.

[legalalien]

I don?t think there have even been online ward meetings, though? I guess because they think they?d be difficult to run/ control? But other wards in the borough seem to have had online ward meetings, according to the official calendar.

[slarti b]

legalalien Wrote:

I don?t think there have even been online ward meetings, though? I guess because they think

they?d be difficult to run/ control?

Legal, yes, I think you are correct. The meetings I am thinking of are wider council ones, eg to do with the Dulwich Review. Souns like our local councillors are trying to hide away, given the feelings of the majority of people in my road and surrounding roads I can see why they are running scared!

https://www.onedulwich.uk/news/80-of-local-households-do-not-support-closure-of-dulwich-village-junction

[Metallic]

northernmonkey wrote: "Final point is that despite it being so apparently dreadful for businesses we are in a position were 3 businesses are opening up - one of them directly onto Dulwich Square. I'm going to assume that they did their due diligence before opening and considered that the location would be good - which does make the claims that LTNs are death to the high street difficult to reconcile. Whilst its clear that new businesses often get rent reductions / rent free periods, I'm also assuming that they've forcasted on a future rent paying basis."

Well northernmonkey, I doubt they did due diligence they are here on a wing and a prayer, just like Fired Earth. And when the hype has died down, they will be on the 5 hours without customers just like every other trader. As for Aqua, the owner was widowed and realised she didn't want to carry on alone. There was no need to be spiteful about the business. Finally, there is a junction, closed at present, and not a square. Surely you can stick to the closed roads you and your colleagues had created, and leave the Villagers to have a junction and hope it opens for the sake of everyone. At the top of my road at the Plough there was a threat to pedestrianise the road between ex Lloyd's Bank and the Library, that will be next I bet.

[hpsaucey]

Metallic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems hpsaucy and northernmonkey, plus their mate

> 3xrah are all getting hot under the collar. They

> are probably on their whatsapp group every night,

> along with other mates from MG, DG and maybe the

> councillors, plotting the next response.

>

> "Your turn."

> "No your turn."

> "No it is your turn."

>

> Grow up for goodness sake and see the problems... '

>

More 'tactical confection' it seems

HP (chilled, with a very low stress level according to my Samsung Health app)

[hpsaucey]

And yes - my post adds little to the debate...

HP

[Rockets]

To me this seems like a very sensible use of LTNs and I can see the justification and rationale for keeping them.

BBC News - Covent Garden and St John's Wood to continue al fresco dining

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58583771

[first mate]

Tsk, HP, you'll get hauled into master/mistress Malumbu's study for rule-breaking if you are not careful and you know he/she is in charge😉

[Spartacus]

Rockets Wrote:

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> To me this seems like a very sensible use of LTNs

> and I can see the justification and rationale for

> keeping them.

>

> BBC News - Covent Garden and St John's Wood to

> continue al fresco dining

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58583

> 771

In situations like the one in the article, I agree it's a bit like the road closure over at Northcote Road in Clapham where it's closed at weekends to make it safe to use the market.

But closing a junction in Dulwich village isn't quite the same league 😂

[hpsaucey]

first mate Wrote:

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> Tsk, HP, you'll get hauled into master/mistress

> Malumbu's study for rule-breaking if you are not

> careful and you know he/she is in charge😉

Fair do's. But there are just so many instances of 'tactical confection' to point out as they certainly do flavour the debate soup!

🤩

[slarti b]

Spartacus Wrote:

> But closing a junction in Dulwich village isn't quite the same league

And of course this goes to the heart of the issue for local residents. The 24/7 junction closure is not a single LTN; Southwark has effectively created 2 separate LTN's within Dulwich which split the community.

Southwark often mention the OHS scheme and its flawed consultation as justification to support the junction closure. However, thc current LTN's and closures contradict several of the main objectives of OHS.

[Nigello]

Re road closures for dining: Generally a good idea, but no always good for those with disabilities because pavement area is shrunk and keen-on-profit restaurateurs sometimes cram more seats in where they are not supposed to be.

[geh]

I?m not sure many if any are making a profit. Sure most would be grateful to break even.

[Abe_froeman]

Those restaurant based road closures are also completely outside the peak traffic levels around here

They are 5pm to 11pm Mon to Fri and 12pm to 11pm at weekends.

[malumbu]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tsk, HP, you'll get hauled into master/mistress Malumbu's study for rule-breaking if you are not careful and you know he/she is in charge😉

Glad to be of service. Perhaps reread my post. If I posted something emotive and factual I am accused of being a troll. If I am careful and post something informative and make some sensible suggestions about how we can have a rational discussion I am accused of being patronising and a troll. I can't win!

Oh credit to the poster who did read my post, disagree but in a measured way.

[hpsaucey]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Tsk, HP, you'll get hauled into master/mistress

> Malumbu's study for rule-breaking if you are not

> careful and you know he/she is in charge😉

>

>

> Glad to be of service. Perhaps reread my post. If

> I posted something emotive and factual I am

> accused of being a troll. If I am careful and

> post something informative and make some sensible

> suggestions about how we can have a rational

> discussion I am accused of being patronising and a

> troll. I can't win!

👍👍👍 this! It's a tactic unworthy even of the school playground.

HP

[heartblock]

I have been told that Councillor Rose is making the decisions post consultation, not the full council or cabinet. Just one person. I do hope this is incorrect.

I am also told very much ?off-line? that the ?decision? was made months ago and the consultation results are being fitted around the already made ?decision?.

No point posting on this thread anymore. Just vote next local election wisely.

[legalalien]

That?s right heartblock - it has always been in the forward plan as a delegated decision to be made by the cabinet member.

See https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50026429&PlanId=674

ETA according to the Southwark website, the report giving background/ recommendations needs to be published 5 working days before the decision is made, and once the decision is made it is subject to a further five working day call in period during which the overview and scrutiny committee can look at/ demand the cabinet member turn up and explain the decision.

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/how-we-work/how-individual-decision-making-works. No idea how/ whether this works in practice.

Membership of overview and scrutiny committee here:

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=308

Wonder if any of the LD members might be persuaded to raise the issue of failure to properly consult/ release data etc. Although not sure how useful this would be with a Labour majority on the committee.

[Metallic]

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryH

> ome.aspx?IId=50026429&PlanId=674

>

> ETA according to the Southwark website, the report

> giving background/ recommendations needs to be

> published 5 working days before the decision is

> made, and once the decision is made it is subject

> to a further five working day call in period

> during which the overview and scrutiny committee

> can look at/ demand the cabinet member turn up and

> explain the decision.

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/council-and-democracy

> /how-we-work/how-individual-decision-making-works.

> No idea how/ whether this works in practice.

>

> Membership of overview and scrutiny committee

> here:

> https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDeta

> ils.aspx?ID=308

>

> Wonder if any of the LD members might be persuaded

> to raise the issue of failure to properly consult/

> release data etc. Although not sure how useful

> this would be with a Labour majority on the

> committee.

Well if they mess this up, as a public body, a local authority, I'm afraid they will unleash the hounds of hell. In all the years I have lived and worked in and for Southwark, I do not remember a bigger mess up than in the way this has been carried out.

[Raeburn]

Hi @P3girl,

You've posted images from completely unconnected events?

- first image is in Birmingham(!) in June 2021, not Ealing last week

- second is Ealing Sept 2020, not Lambeth last week

- final image is also Ealing Sept 2020, not Hackney last week.

Could you correct your post with proper images from the events please. Wether by mistake or on purpose, it's not helping anyone, and undermines any reasonable points being made.

[slarti b2]

@Legal

Thanks for your link re decision making process it says :

"Under council's constitution, all key decisions taken by individual cabinet members are listed on the forward plan. The council publishes key decisions on the website five working days before the individual Cabinet member can consider the decision (publishing period). This includes details of the decisions, their status and copies of any relevant reports."

I find it a little confusing but I guess that they are using "decision" to mean a decision to be approved/made (although the cycnic in me might say the decision has already been made.

So we need to keep an eye on teh web site to see when the report will be published. Hmmmm....