LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Penguin68]

it will flash back to burn the fingers of @SouthwarkLabour.

I doubt it. The 'fury' you read about in these pages represents only a small number of the electorate. There would need to be very clear campaigning around a single issue to make any difference, and it is most unlikely that sufficient non Labour and non Lib-Dem votes - for just one candidate, to succeed - could be mustered. Lib Dems broadly support Labour as regards being anti-car (that's anti private car ownership, a stated Labour policy).

You need a cause as big as Independence (vide The Scots Nats defeat of incumbent and entrenched Labour party 'couldn't give a damn about the electorate' local and national politicians) to make any difference.

Southwark is not a 'swing' council in that way. At least, not about a car issue.

[malumbu]

Peoples republic of South London? You can get the t-shirts at the Horniman Farmers' Market

[Spartacus]

Power to the People

 

[Abe_froeman]

Maybe it is time for independence from Southwark for East Dulwich. They do nothing to look after us.

[heartblock]

So...the front entrance of Charter is Melbourne Grove ....yet the 3 coaches causing traffic mayhem are parked on East Dulwich Grove...mmhhhhh

[first mate]

Well, it does make sense. Having blocked off part of MG to traffic the last thing you want is nasty, polluting school coaches damaging children's lungs at the school entrance. Better to send them onto a main road and increase pollution there and it will also teach those drivers commuting through to work a jolly good lesson...how dare they pollute the local area with their fumes and damage children's lungs, don't they know there's a school there.

[heartblock]

All 3 with engines on......idling for over 30mins. For LTN supporters..when it suits ED Grove is a main transit road, so no stopping allowed, other times it is a school road so coaches can stop and idle on a double yellow. As long as the nice houses, with nice gardens and nice people can have peace and quiet and NOx levels below 20 then that?s all that matters. Who cares if the independent measurement of NOx and traffic on ED Grove as measured by the not so independent council have both increased by at least 25% since the gated communities got what they wanted....

[northernmonkey]

Assume these are a one off coach for something related to Charter? It isn't ok for them to leave engines idling - have you contacted the school about this? Assume they're for a trip or a fixture or something as they obviously don't have coaches daily.

Not sure that any LTN supporter would be suggesting that coaches should stop and idle - in fact know of many who have spent years discussing/ reporting the foundation schools to their coaches manager to work with them to stop this.

[hpsaucey]

Pretty sure they're for a one-off school trip - there's one planned today. Contact the school office about the engines running as I think that way you'd get something positive done about it?

HP

[bels123]

Asking the coach drivers to turn off their engine is another option, most companies have a no-idling policy and take it seriously if a driver has been found to breach this.

[Nigello]

Ring up the coach firm/s in question and complain, or, better still, email them and CC the school head. It will take about five minutes and will have more effect than anything else.

[Earl Aelfheah]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems to cut both ways.

>

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I have absolutely no reason to think you?ll

> accept

> > any data that does not show what you want it

> to.

> > You?ve dismissed TfL data, freely available in

> > it?s entirety. You?ve pretty much rubbished all

> > the research on active travel. I could produce

> a

> > glossy pamphlet with ?open everything to cars

> and

> > the air will be clear and traffic a thing of

> the

> > past? if you want 🤷 in fact I think One

> > Dulwich already have some.

I must of missed the research that shows an increase in road capacity reduces the number of car journeys and increases active travel. If you can point me to it, I'll look at it with an open mind.

[heartblock]

Maybe shouldn?t be parked on a corner of a narrow road and a bus route on yellow lines either? And yes...asked the drivers and also reported. Still...they should be on Melbourne not ED Grove.

[heartblock]

I see that Lambeth gated communities are now going to have CCTV and policing spent on them to keep the unwashed away from the peaceful q?white areas.....more and more like an American gated community everyday that passes. Rosamund Kissi Debrah must watch on with deep despair.

[Siduhe]

Out of curiosity - which coach firm?

If it's the same firm that regularly serve Harris Boys on Peckham Rye, it's pointless asking them to switch their engines off - you get ignored at best and told to "f'off back on your bicycle" at worst. And reporting it to the coach firm doesn't make any difference. Believe me I've tried.

[alice]

Had the same response in townley a while back

[LTN BooHoo]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I see that Lambeth gated communities are now going

> to have CCTV and policing spent on them to keep

> the unwashed away from the peaceful q?white

> areas.....more and more like an American gated

> community everyday that passes. Rosamund Kissi

> Debrah must watch on with deep despair.

That?s funny a ?gated community? is what One Dulwich/DA is pushing for! A permit system where everyone in Dulwich (whatever that means) gets a permit, which would allow the ?washed? to drive in and out of their nice neighbourhood into poorer areas of town. Of course the unwashed won?t be let in as they won?t have a permit.

Where?s the equality in that you ask on behalf Rosemund Kissi Debra?

[DulwichCentral]

Well said LTN Boohoo - and of course the One Dulwich Gated Community would cause the same displacement they **claim** to care so much about. Wonder what Rosemund Kiss Debra would make of that??

[exdulwicher]

  Quote

Still...they should be on Melbourne not ED Grove.

Even when Melbourne wasn't filtered, you wouldn't have got a coach down there. The buses (back in the days when the 37 went along it) could barely make it round the bend. Certainly now it is filtered at the ED station end, if you put a coach in there it wouldn't be able to turn around - putting three coaches down there is not an option.

Second the comment about reporting them. Email to the coach firm with the school and Southwark environment copied in as it's both noise and air pollution. You're right, complaining to the drivers is usually a waste of time.

  Quote

I see that Lambeth gated communities are now going to have CCTV and policing spent on them to keep the unwashed away from the peaceful q?white areas

Maybe if the anti-LTN'ers would like to stop pouring engine oil into planters, spray painting signs and vandalising cameras, that money could be spent elsewhere?!

https://brixtonblog.com/2021/07/council-to-act-against-ltn-vandals/

Pouring engine oil over plants is just despicable. Honestly, one (heavily anonymised) photo of a Clean Air for All poster next to a massive SUV, the forum goes into meltdown. Repeated vandalism costing tens of thousands to fix and your complaint is that the council are spending money on trying to prevent it?! Not that people are committing criminal damage and (rather ironically) polluting the very streets they seem so keen on "protecting"? I think your ire is aimed at the wrong people...

[alice]

LTNs are over in Dulwich. Your mutual back patting is making no difference. The consultation is over. It was a ?nice? but it didn?t work for enough people.

[heartblock]

It?s Rosamund Kissi Debrah, have some respect for a real clean air campaigner and at the very least have a go at getting her name right and I?m not a member of one Dulwich and they don?t speak for me or I for them. CCTV and extra policing for a failed project is ridiculous, especially when told there isn?t enough money for proper air monitoring. LTNs benefit a few, wealthy rich areas, who have a high car ownership and nice bike racks on their SUVs.

[malumbu]

Interesting point about coaches. I've seem sitting their idling, for example outside Horniman museum. Asked them to switch their engines off and the driver has ignored me. These are school buses for heavens sake. You save fuel, money and reduce your emissions. I've had the same response from cops sitting their with a takeaway, with the engine running. Sad that small measures like switching your engine off, or smoother use of the accelerator and brake pedals, will reduce emissions yet many couldn't give a monkeys. I've discussed this on the lounge before - difficult to enforce and more needs to be done to encourage. Schools tend to be pretty good at no idling zones.

Not directly relevant to LTNs but very relevant to air quality and climate change.

[Rockets]

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Still...they should be on Melbourne not ED Grove.

>

> Even when Melbourne wasn't filtered, you wouldn't

> have got a coach down there. The buses (back in

> the days when the 37 went along it) could barely

> make it round the bend. Certainly now it is

> filtered at the ED station end, if you put a coach

> in there it wouldn't be able to turn around -

> putting three coaches down there is not an

> option.

>

> Second the comment about reporting them. Email to

> the coach firm with the school and Southwark

> environment copied in as it's both noise and air

> pollution. You're right, complaining to the

> drivers is usually a waste of time.

>

>

> I see that Lambeth gated communities are now going

> to have CCTV and policing spent on them to keep

> the unwashed away from the peaceful q?white areas

>

> Maybe if the anti-LTN'ers would like to stop

> pouring engine oil into planters, spray painting

> signs and vandalising cameras, that money could be

> spent elsewhere?!

> https://brixtonblog.com/2021/07/council-to-act-aga

> inst-ltn-vandals/

>

> Pouring engine oil over plants is just despicable.

> Honestly, one (heavily anonymised) photo of a

> Clean Air for All poster next to a massive SUV,

> the forum goes into meltdown. Repeated vandalism

> costing tens of thousands to fix and your

> complaint is that the council are spending money

> on trying to prevent it?! Not that people are

> committing criminal damage and (rather ironically)

> polluting the very streets they seem so keen on

> "protecting"? I think your ire is aimed at the

> wrong people...

Also I would suggest reporting the coach company to the school - they are the ones who pay for their service so the company will probably listen to the school if their contract is at risk because of their behaviour.

I completely agree that damaging anything is utterly abhorrent and such a feeble and weak attempt at protest. But Ex- the lunatic fringe of the pro-lobby has been at it just as much as the lunatic fringe of the anti-lobby - the repeated vandalism of the signs people have put into their gardens and "Love LTN" graffiti all over East Dulwich.

So you can't pin this just on the anti-lobby - there are complete idiots on both sides.

On the subject of the school issue in the area it was interesting how things have gradually got quieter and quieter on the local roads as more and more children have been forced to self-isolate in the latter days of term over the last couple of weeks. I really think the council should have made a concerted effort to work with the schools to help resolve the Dulwich traffic issues before throwing in the roadblocks - it's clear that the coaches are a continuing issue and so are parents doing the school run. Maybe, if the LTNs have to be removed, they will return to addressing the school issue.

[DulwichCentral]

So hearts drawn with chalk (probably by a child) are equivalent to pouring buckets of engine oil over planters?

You surpass yourself in hyperbole Rockets :))))))

[alice]

If pollution has created giant children then yes.