LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[DulwichCentral]

In my

> view, you'd be a fool to completely trust

> reporting from any media outlet.

Which was kind of my point ;)

[northernmonkey]

Not really monitored in sufficient detail - anecdotally though I'd imagine 'awful' and everyone who has a wood burner and another source of heating should stop burning wood now.

Latest research shows that the toxic spike within your own home each time you open the door is huge - so perhaps people might start to think now its clear they're poisoning their own family as well as their neighbours.

ab29 Wrote:

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> Interesting; although must admit I trust The

> Guardian less after their biased and one sided

> reporting on LTNs

>

>

> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/0

>

> >

> 7/fireplaces-and-stoves-are-bigger-polluters-than-

>

> > traffic

> >

> > Saw this. Wonder what stats are like in

> Southwark?

[first mate]

Okay, but not how it came over, as I suspect you well know;

[mr.chicken]

first mate Wrote:

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> Mr chicken needs his wings clipped😉

Well it wouldn't matter if I could drive everywhere freely in the largest SUV I could finance. As it is I have to flap from Gail's to the park and I do find that obnoxious. Speaking of which I'm thinking of lobbying the council to remove the zigzags by that zebra crossing and the double yellow lines round all the junctions in the village so there's more parking spaces (for local residents only though). Can anyone help me get this added to the One Dulwich manifesto?

[kiera]

I'm surprised at how few people have supported the comments which are objecting to the removal of the buses from Rye Lane.

(Objections are the red pins)

https://peckhamstreetspace.commonplace.is/

Plenty of cyclists are saying how great it is now and that the closure should be made permanent (supporters = green pins)

[dulwichfolk]

As with all these things most that are affected don?t have time to search out all the websites they should be sticking pins into.

The council seem to be happy with that and only wish to hear from one demographic whatever they may say about inclusion etc....

[Nigello]

The buses ought to be brought back to the Lane. The drivers are on the whole more likely to be cycle-friendly due to training and the presence of a public asset is needed to democratise the street. Rye Lane is part treasure, part midden. Pedestrians and cycles are to be encouraged but not at the expense of those who choose a different way of getting around. I don?t like the feeling of Rye Lane especially near the south end: it?s often empty and just feels lacking life there. The litter and ubiquitous graffiti doesn?t help, but councillors and officers just don?t get involved in the same way they do a mile or so south (cf. LTNs at Melbourne Grove, etc.).

[intexasatthe moment]

Keira - thanks for that .I've just commented .It's a bit of a faff ,I thought that as I've already commented on other commonspace maps that I could go ahead ,stick my pin ,write my comments and that was it .

But no - you have to complete more questions and verify by responding to an incoming email .

I found it convoluted and off putting .

[legalalien]

On a similar note, the Council seem to have unilaterally disabled the "update" service on their Council and Democracy website. I've suddenly stopped receiving updates, and when I try to resubscribe I get an error message with the ominous word "Forbidden". Ironic.

dulwichfolk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As with all these things most that are affected

> don?t have time to search out all the websites

> they should be sticking pins into.

>

> The council seem to be happy with that and only

> wish to hear from one demographic whatever they

> may say about inclusion etc....

[sally buying]

kiera Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm surprised at how few people have supported the

> comments which are objecting to the removal of the

> buses from Rye Lane.

> (Objections are the red pins)

> https://peckhamstreetspace.commonplace.is/

> Plenty of cyclists are saying how great it is now

> and that the closure should be made permanent

> (supporters = green pins)

Unfortunately unless you are in the "KNOW" you will never get to hear of these consultations which Southwark like as it means their selected groups who support whatever Southwark want to push through will vote.

I have asked the Local Cllr Jasmine Ali and Deputy Leader what is happening and have never received an answer. If this consultation exist you would have thought she would have provided information.

But then perhaps from her window in Tooley Street she cannot see what is happening but she does live off Rye Lane so you would have thought she would have more interest. Still Southwarks has an already decided plan.

[first mate]

Well, well, well and are we surprised. You'll have to find a clever workaround. I think the council do a lot of 'managing' of information by these accidentally on purpose technology 'errors'.

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> On a similar note, the Council seem to have

> unilaterally disabled the "update" service on

> their Council and Democracy website. I've

> suddenly stopped receiving updates, and when I try

> to resubscribe I get an error message with the

> ominous word "Forbidden". Ironic.

>

>

> dulwichfolk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > As with all these things most that are affected

> > don?t have time to search out all the websites

> > they should be sticking pins into.

> >

> > The council seem to be happy with that and only

> > wish to hear from one demographic whatever they

> > may say about inclusion etc....

[slarti b]

Good video here showing how nice it is in the morning in Dulwich Village when all the traffic has ben diverted onto Croxted Rd, EDG, Lordship Lane etc. Really nice that the residents of Calton can enjopy their morning cappuccino in peace now.

An earlier video shows how awful it is on Croxted road now...

[legalalien]

I?ve emailed the constitutional team email address, let?s see. I am bloody minded enough to check frequently to see what is going on. You?ll see from my other thread that there?s a Peckham / Nunhead ward meeting to discuss low traffic in Nunhead, next week (online) which was advertised on the Peckham and Nunhead Facebook page but doesn?t seem to have made it into the main Southwark calendar.

[Raeburn]

Not sure what the point of these videos are - they show precisely how much traffic/pollution is caused by privately owned cars with single/low occupancy? How large/over-powered, and inefficient most of them are for the job? How end-to-end on-street parking add further to the congestion? That many of these queuing vehicles and biggest polluters will be dropped by October with the ULEZ extension comes in? That the school run is one of the biggest causes of congestion at this time of day?... etc etc etc.

I'd say it's an advert to ask people IF they absolutely need to drive, and if so, is this the best time TO do it?

slarti b Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Good video here showing how nice it is in the

> morning in Dulwich Village when all the traffic

> has ben diverted onto Croxted Rd, EDG, Lordship

> Lane etc. Really nice that the residents of

> Calton can enjopy their morning cappuccino in

> peace now.

>

>

> nnel=OnionBike

>

> An earlier video shows how awful it is on Croxted

> road now...

>

> nnel=OnionBike

[alice]

Has anyone changed their mind about LTNs? And if not what would it take for you to do so?

[dulwichfolk]

I always ask the same question about the photos and videos of people sitting in the road/parklet having a drink at the square of shame unless it is to wind up the displacement areas more then they already are.

Raeburn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not sure what the point of these videos are - they

> show precisely how much traffic/pollution is

> caused by privately owned cars with single/low

> occupancy? How large/over-powered, and inefficient

> most of them are for the job? How end-to-end

> on-street parking add further to the congestion?

> That many of these queuing vehicles and biggest

> polluters will be dropped by October with the ULEZ

> extension comes in? That the school run is one of

> the biggest causes of congestion at this time of

> day?... etc etc etc.

>

> I'd say it's an advert to ask people IF they

> absolutely need to drive, and if so, is this the

> best time TO do it?

>

>

> slarti b Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Good video here showing how nice it is in the

> > morning in Dulwich Village when all the traffic

> > has ben diverted onto Croxted Rd, EDG, Lordship

> > Lane etc. Really nice that the residents of

> > Calton can enjopy their morning cappuccino in

> > peace now.

> >

> >

>

>

> > nnel=OnionBike

> >

> > An earlier video shows how awful it is on

> Croxted

> > road now...

> >

>

>

> > nnel=OnionBike

[Raeburn]

....Which show how pleasant streets can be if we reduce reliance on large vehicles making unnecessary trips on residential roads, and further jamming them up with parking.

Unfortunately, all the roads in the videos - Croxted, E Dulwich Grove, Norwood Rd - are all A-road designated, which means major through routes ie. assigned to move vehicles across key points. I think this is often overlooked when two roads are compared. The most effective method of reducing traffic and pollution on these A-roads is simple; stop using single-occupancy cars for unnecessary journeys at the busiest times of the day.

dulwichfolk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I always ask the same question about the photos

> and videos of people sitting in the road/parklet

> having a drink at the square of shame unless it is

> to wind up the displacement areas more then they

> already are.

>

[dulwichfolk]

I never appreciated that the journeys were being monitored and the occupancy along with vehicle size and parking allocation was being measured.

If the plan is to route everything (including all the deliveries/side road traffic onto the ?major A roads? as you put it why don?t the council just say that.

Raeburn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ....Which show how pleasant streets can be if we

> reduce reliance on large vehicles making

> unnecessary trips on residential roads, and

> further jamming them up with parking.

>

> Unfortunately, all the roads in the videos -

> Croxted, E Dulwich Grove, Norwood Rd - are all

> A-road designated, which means major through

> routes ie. assigned to move vehicles across key

> points. I think this is often overlooked when two

> roads are compared. The most effective method of

> reducing traffic and pollution on these A-roads is

> simple; stop using single-occupancy cars for

> unnecessary journeys at the busiest times of the

> day.

>

>

> dulwichfolk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I always ask the same question about the photos

> > and videos of people sitting in the

> road/parklet

> > having a drink at the square of shame unless it

> is

> > to wind up the displacement areas more then

> they

> > already are.

> >

[ab29]

Since the air quality should be made better for everyone, I want to know how is the council planning to improve it on the roads such as LL, Croxted Rd, EDG? Some of these roads are A roads which doesn't change the fact they are also very densely populated residential roads.

So while we wait for people to stop using their cars, which might never happen, the council is happy to let the buggers living on these roads to choke on the extra fumes and die of lung cancer 10 years earlier - because who cares? Certainly not the Labour councillors and by the look of things, many on this forum agree with it.

[mfcjoe]

All about money nothing more nothing less, the kids of the rich and affluent in DV get a free pass, whilst the kids of the not so wealthy and affluent in Walworth get more free fumes, meanwhile the council rake in almost 3 million in fines.

[Raeburn]

It's not a plan, it's always been the case - it's just that sat-nav systems (like Waze) route traffic along residential streets to save the driver 60 secs, instead of using the roads which have been designated to move traffic around London.

- here's a TFL map showing the network, which also includes LL.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-base-map-master.pdf

This increase in traffic on residential roads has been increasing since the introduction of sat-nav technology around 2009. Alas, I'm not sure the tech giants are keen to address this - perhaps functions like asking if the journey is necessary, offering alternative/cheaper modes, or suggesting better times to travel, are around the corner?

- not sure I mentioned 'major A-roads', sounds like I'm talking about dual carriageway!

[Raeburn]

Well, off the top of my head,

The ULEZ extension in October. Although not perfect (electric vehicles still contribute heavy particulates through tyre/brake wear, and kickup these particles) it's a step to reducing pollution, and the number of vehicles on the roads

Selecting non-vehicular traffic deliveries is great - Southwark were doing this through the food drops with PedalMe - but great to see more policy change to incentivise this. PedalMe were offering free trips for people going to get vaccinated too.

There's free cycle-proficiency training and other initiatives in Southwark, plus a round of grants for e-pedal powered vehicles for businesses

....Fuel duty has been frozen for over ten years. Perhaps this should be boosted to make driving ICE vehicles and contributing to the pollution less appealing

ab29 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Since the air quality should be made better for

> everyone, I want to know how is the council

> planning to improve it on the roads such as LL,

> Croxted Rd, EDG? Some of these roads are A roads

> which doesn't change the fact they are also very

> densely populated residential roads.

>

> So while we wait for people to stop using their

> cars, which might never happen, the council is

> happy to let the buggers living on these roads to

> choke on the extra fumes and die of lung cancer 10

> years earlier - because who cares? Certainly not

> the Labour councillors and by the look of things,

> many on this forum agree with it.

[legalalien]

An idle thought: if those most responsible for the traffic are rich stay at home parents in overpowered SUVs ferrying Tarquin and Jemima to and from local prep schools - is there any reason to believe that an inconvenient delay is going to cause them to stop doing so? If they?re that selfish they are not going to be bothered about holding up buses / poisoning main road residents/ forcing tradespeople out of the area; it?s perfectly nice inside the SUV, hands free mobile, back seat DVDs or an opportunity for some homework... I don?t think this will work to make that traffic evaporate.

Went past the Burbage Roundabout this afternoon and the kind man stopping people from inadvertently driving through the bus gates was there doing his great work. Of the four cars I saw him stop, all were elderly couples in very reasonably priced cars (not statistically meaningful, I know, just what I saw.)

[Lebanums]

I don't believe it is a case of closing off streets or a whole village to make "our streets safer" What the council have failed to do is make public transport more accessible. I work in Greenwich, in the summer I cycle. In the winter if I use public transport, I would take a bus to then get off & walk up The Lane to the station then another 40 mins onward journey when it can take me 25 mins in my car. There is also a train from Honor Oak Park but there is not a bus that will take me there either. 🙄

[alice]

Agreed I cycled to work at London Bridge till I changed jobs and couldn?t face rotherhithe tunnel. I drove but switched to Overground as soon as that line was open. If creating new public transport routes would take too long/ ???? then think about rerouting buses/ bikes down shut roads or preferably the reverse.