LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Rockets]

legalalien Wrote:

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> I don?t think people are going to disagree on this

> thread - they just don?t think the particular

> configuration of closures in this area are an

> acceptable tool to encourage people to drive less,

> because of the collateral damage.

>

> I?m not going to drive less, though, as I don?t

> have a licence and don?t drive :)

>

>

>

> SE22_2020er Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I've had a brilliant idea to solve the problem.

>

> > DRIVE LESS!!!!

> >

> > I think the one thing that everyone agrees on

> this

> > thread is that there is too much pollution

> caused

> > by people driving. No-one has said that they

> > want to see more cars on the road. Or have I

> > missed those posts?

> >

> > So, what you should be doing fellow posters is

> > focussing on the root cause of the problem

> which

> > is too many people driving and not enough

> people

> > using public transport and active transport

> > (walking and cycling).

> >

> > Am I the only one who is keeping their fingers

> > crossed that we will get the congestion charge

> > implemented soon so that people who pollute are

> > financially penalised for their pollution?

Spot on legal. The LTNs don't take enough cars off the road to prevent increased congestion and pollution on tbe roads not closed. LTNs are a very blunt instrument that do nothing more than to create a reduced car nirvana within them and pollution hell around and outside them. Even if you remove the unnecessary local journeys made by Dulwich residents you probably only get a low single figure % of reduced car use which is not nearly enough to not cause displacement problems elsewhere. Remember the best claimed reduction in car use from an LTN was 11% and I suspect that was not in an area with as complex traffic challenges as Dulwich.

Schools go back tomorrow so we are likely to see the first phase of the return of the increased congestion from the LTNs and it will increase again with each phase of lifting.

Just saw this....it's as if each council is following the same playbook word for word...

https://youtu.be/RMPmPi1aayE

[heartblock]

Schools back... EDG back to being a polluted nightmare.. m any cyclists using the pavement too...

[Nigello]

I think it is nice to see the kids back, but not the parents who fling their arms around each other as if they were not in a pandemic! (Agree with the pavement cyclists, especially those ones who think that guiding their children on their bikes gives them the right to barrel along a narrow footpath!)

[northernmonkey]

DKH northbound closed for resurfacing. EDG is diversion for busses

[SE22_2020er]

Hi Heartblock - when I cycled my children to school this morning we went from Lordship Lane up to the lights by Townley road. It was at 8am and the traffic was absolutely fine. At the lights by Townley road there was a queue of 3 cars when the light turned green.

At what time did the the traffic get bad?

[SE22_2020er]

I was a bit confused about seeing the number 40 coming the other way but thanks for clarifying Northernmonkey :-)

[Abe_froeman]

Was very busy around Goose Green Roundabout / East Dulwich Road and all of the side roads between Lordship Lane and Barry Road this morning.

[Concerned2021]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550887

[heartblock]

[malumbu]

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20200128/282102048646255

[heartblock]

Short exposure to PM10 and PM2.5 can trigger a lethal asthma attack in a child. Croxted was definitely over the legal limit of both today for the school run. Did Southwark measure this today?

[ab29]

Thank you for the link Concerned.

This is a petition asking for a control over what councils are doing regarding the road closures.

Concerned2021 Wrote:

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> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550887

[Rockets]

I noticed this morning that monitoring strips are in on Lordship Lane near the Melford Road junction (they have been there for a while) but previously (during the last lockdown lift in November/December) they had been situated near the junction with Mount Adon.

Ex- is there a reason why the strips get moved and are not monitoring in the same place as previously?

[Metallic]

James McAsh is not my councillor but he says a lot on behalf of the council, and says things our councillors in Village Ward should expect to say to us their ward constituents, discuss with us and for us to see them acted upon.

October 14th 2020. I'm copying in almost all of it as it appertains to any area with LTNs and traffic building up on the roads that have to take the overflow. Councillor McCash writes:

" .......They cover the intentions behind the scheme, the process by which they have been implemented and what I think should be the next steps. It is also an attempt to honestly acknowledge the mistakes and shortcomings on the part of the council, and indeed on the part of us Goose Green councillors.

It's useful to hear the wide range of perspectives.

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WHAT DOES SUCCESS LOOK LIKE?

In my view, we need to look at the effects across the whole area but also on individual streets.

The two key criteria are?air pollution?and?traffic volume. Put simply, if these two measures are not reduced across the whole area then the scheme has failed. It is not enough to displace the traffic - we want to reduce it overall.

But even if air pollution and traffic volume decrease across the board, it matters how it is distributed. I want to see a?social justice?approach to the analysis. No matter what we do there will inevitably be some pollution and traffic. I want this to be shared equitably: protecting schools, nurseries and hospitals above all else; and not allowing the negative effects of air pollution to fall on those least able to bear them.

We have a new Leader of the Council, Cllr Kieron Williams, and this approach is already reflected in his leadership team. Instead of creating a post for ?Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?, he appointed Cllr Radha Burgess as Deputy Cabinet Member for ?Low Traffic Southwark?. The shift in emphasis is important: we want to reduce traffic across all of Southwark, not segregate ?low traffic? and ?high traffic? neighbourhoods. (To be clear, this is not the intention of LTN measures, but if they do not work properly this can be the outcome).

WHAT NEXT?

I have spoken to Cllr Rose and Cllr Burgess (the Cabinet and Deputy Cabinet members with responsibility for this area) to request that these measures be evaluated as soon as we can. I have further requested that the evaluation considers the following factors:

- Overall levels of pollution

- Overall levels of traffic

- The ?social justice? implications of how pollution and traffic are distributed (i.e. who lives on the more polluted streets?).

We will learn more from this evaluation process but here are my initial thoughts:

- Local businesses on Melbourne Grove, Grove Vale, Lordship Lane and elsewhere need support from the council: there should be a joined-up approach between councillors, the highways team and the local economy team.

- Matham Grove and Zenoria/Oxonian Street are clearly experiencing problems which can and should be remedied, probably fairly cheaply.

- The junction between East Dulwich Grove and Lordship Lane has long been a problem, and this has only got worse.

- Nurseries, schools and hospitals should be considered ?vulnerable hubs? which we prioritise for protection from pollution."

So now I'm asking, in all humility, what has happened? This is damning for Councillor McCash and all his fellow councillors, because we in the south of the Borough know what has happened: NOTHING.

[legalalien]

Update on today?s cabinet meeting,

Cabinet received 24 questions from members of the public and has provided written responses to all questions, no supplementary questions were allowed at the meeting due to number involved and not wanting to unfairly prioritise some questions over others. Questions largely related to review of street space measures in Dulwich - those involved can be involved in the review process as it launches in coming days and weeks.

The two deputation requests on the review of low traffic measures were refused, on the basis that those concerned will have a chance to participate in the review process in a number of ways, eg meetings with cabinet members, formal consultations.

ETA clearly some discussion in the chat function by those unhappy not to be allowed to speak, subsequent commentary from Cllr Williams re point of deputations being to make Cabinet aware issues exist - and that everyone able to have their voice heard in the review process.

Sent from my iPhone

[malumbu]

An article in a transport magazine about the school run and changes to behaviour. Some have grasped the opportunity to use the car less, although many haven't and some have shifted to driving. Survey size is a bit piddly.

https://www.transporttimes.co.uk/news.php/Has-Covid-19-changed-the-school-run-617/?utm_source=Transport+Times&utm_campaign=b00d95f2ab-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_10_30_11_03_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c0cafa3f39-b00d95f2ab-250793593

Short quote from the blog: Our survey showed that the majority of respondents (80%) hadn't changed the way they travel to school since the start of the pandemic. Of the participants who hadn't changed the way they travelled, more than 60% walk for at least part of their journey, and just over one-fifth cycled or scooted for at least part of their journey. Almost 40% used the car for some or all of their journey.

Interestingly, of those participants who had changed the way they travel to school, over half were now walking for at least part of their journey, and over one-third cycling. Alarmingly, some respondents had shifted to using the car, with over half of those who had changed their travel behaviour, using the car for at least some of their journey.

[legalalien]

I suspect we?re not going to get a really accurate picture until everyone is allowed to return to workplaces. There will be some who feel they can do the school run with active travel while working from home but can?t / don?t feel they can once a commute to work is factored in.

[legalalien]

Watching last night?s Environment Scrutiny Commission on catch up. So far

- sounds like quite a few members of the public dialled in , the chair did a good job of explaining the point of Commission meetings. Big fan of Cllr Ochere in the chair.

- there is a firm plan to exempt blue badge holders, just subject to ward councillors receiving advance note of the public comms. (Presumably this can only apply to camera controlled closures - that wasn?t expressly stated. As I understand it each blue badge holder will be able to nominate a vehicle - doesn?t have to be their own)

- discussion with ambulance guy. Comms with council now fortnightly and going well. Wasn?t great at start when all schemes went in at once (not just a Southwark related problem). Discussions need to be more linked up with TfL and neighbouring boroughs going forward. He comes on again to express a clear preference for cameras rather than planters and points out the emergency responders are broader than what people might think eg network of people who jump in their car and bring a defibrillator, and that the impact of schemes on nurses, social carers, people travelling by car to cancer appointments etc also need to be considered

- good question from one of the councillors about the need for robust data and the fact that talking in percentages is unhelpful eg a small reduction in traffic on a quiet road gives a big percentage, a much larger increase in traffic on a busy road can give a small percentage. Requested that council make relevant data available to public as ?open data?

- Cllr Morris suggests that too much was done too soon and that council officers have basically been swamped as a result. May need to bring in more resource to deal with monitoring and engagement (aim for ?calmer streets and calmer residents?). Some acknowledgement about workload. Unrelated, mentioned that there?s a new director of environment appointed 8 days ago

Cllr Newens asked for an update on timetable for review/ consultation and didn?t get one (but there is significant comms work being done

- lots of talk about equality and SST policy. Cllr Burgess mentions that pollution on main roads should be a Labour concern, mentions PSED and the need to include colleagues from public health in the assessment/ make sure there is robust data around health impact

- some mention of data collection. If I heard it correctly it sounded like the air pollution measurement would rely on the existing air monitoring infrastructure in conjunction with modelling.

-Cllr Hamvas makes the point that channeling traffic onto main roads has a negative impact on those attending / travelling to schools on main roads. Cllr Rose makes a brief mention about green screening (later described by Cllr Burgess as a ?sticking plaster?, while describing one of her main road schools as having high levels of FSM and ESL - Cllr Rose makes some mention of the ?next generation of school streets? (this didn?t sound like something already in the planning stage)

Cllr Neale still asking for the parking info (should I send him a copy?), and Cllr Burgess mentions the need to start talking about alternative kerbside uses (I think she gave removing on street parking from one side of roads as an example)

Cllr Burgess mentions Climate Emergency strategy and acknowledges the schemes will be counterproductive if increased journey miles etc result in a net increase in pollution/ emissions - need to do some sort of ?climate change calculation?

I would make a rubbish stenographer. Best to watch online if interested enough! But hopefully gives people a flavour.

[legalalien]

Also an interesting presentation by

TfL/ GLA on ULEZ and related transport policy.

[dulwichfolk]

Watching this you get the impression that as all the other non dulwich councillors reiterate about main roads, schools, and the need for any changes to be equitable in nature they are all talking directly to the dulwich councillors.

[dulwichfolk]

There was also an informative slide which suggested that due to ULEZ expansion by 2025 ?Only 2% of road kms in London expected to exceed NO2 limit values?

[Rockets]

Legal - I have not watched the video but did you sense that there might be a swing in the sentiment towards the closures amongst some councillors or at least more scrutiny?

Did I read it correctly somewhere that the review that was promised in February is now delayed until late summer? It was days away from being published (according to Cllr Williams a month or so ago) yet has now disappeared - I would love to know why - maybe the clues are in some of the questions being asked during that meeting?

[slarti b]

@legalalien

A good set of notes and I completely agree with your view that councillors are showing much more concern about the impact of road closures on surrounding streets.

A couple of points on the comments by Darren from London Ambulance Service.

- I think he said average response times (across London?) had increased from 14 to 16 minutes since traffic measures put in, though this may be down to more cars on road as fewer people are using public transport.

- He also said they have recorded 170 incidents across all London boroughs where traffic measures had caused delays that had adversely impacted the patient. Of those 51 were in Southwark, if so that is very worrying. He said Islington, where they have camera controlled closures, had only 1(one) such incident.

Edit for typo ("more cars on road" not "fewer") - thanks DC

[Rockets]

Slarti b - wow those stats from LAS are really concerning. It's obviously been part of the tug of war between those that support and those that oppose the closures but those numbers are compelling.

I have been amazed that removable barriers have not been put in at the Calton Ave/Court Lane/DV junction - does anyone know why the council have refused to do that when others in areas like Melbourne Grove have been updated?

[DulwichCentral]

@slarti is this a typo?

" I think he said average response times (across London?) had increased from 14 to 16 minutes since traffic measures put in, though this may be down to fewer cars on road as fewer people are using public transport."

Fewer cars on the road as fewer people using public transport?