LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Rockets]

Legal - that Eastendenquirer piece is very interesting and, altough I have no idea who is behind it and what their views are, it certainly feels as if you could do a find and replace on Tower Hamlets and replace it with Southwark/East Dulwich - it's an all too familiar story as to how councils are trying to strongarm their plans whilst ignoring the needs of the local residents.

I am sure some of the pro-closure lobbyists will say that the writer is some sort of petrolhead but these sections rang very true to me:

.....The specific reason for this public rebuke is when a complaint against the discrimination embedded in the Liveable Streets, a 2,000 signature petition, was dismissed at Council on January 20th 2021 the residents were portrayed as being climate change deniers.

Seriously. This happened.

Because residents complained about Liveable Streets they were all made out to be car enthusiasts intent on filling our streets with their 4?4 Kensington Tractors. Because they questioned the status quo they were all portrayed as cycle haters...........

........This opposition is not about cycle lanes or bikes versus cars. It is about the manner in which Tower Hamlets council, a Labour administration, has tried to force Liveable Streets on communities with little or no regard for the needs of those communities.

The ?Liveable Streets? scheme is a fuse that has fizzled and now exploded the frustration of ordinary people who have been ignored for years.

It may well be the cause of the demise of the 50-year-old rule of the Labour Party in Tower Hamlets and its replacement with a democratic system where ordinary people represent their communities with honour and duty.

[Metallic]

legalalien Wrote:

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> Red Bounty bars or blue ones? In the hope that

> the debate may split along different lines for a

> change - I am firmly in camp red.

Red. I inadvertently sent this one word reply on a private message. Sorry!

[Abe_froeman]

"It may well be the cause of the demise of the 50-year-old rule of the Labour Party in Tower Hamlets and its replacement with a democratic system where ordinary people represent their communities with honour and duty."

I think that's something the champagne socialists in Southwark need to be very mindful of too...

[alice]

For Dulwich LTNs to centre themselves in the richest part of South Southwark is against everything Labour stands for.

Love cycling Hate LTNs

[malumbu]

S'truth, this class war nonsense is like going back to the 80s.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_War

[alice]

Malumbo your recent ?humorous? posts are not working.

Keep on subject or start your own

[legalalien]

Watching the South multiward meeting . Cllr Charlie Smith explaining demand for cycle hangers in GG ward - some new ones going in. East Dulwich Square is the bit outside East Dulwich station. ?12k for a feasibility study into traffic lights or a ped crossing at EDG/ LL. will post details when they go up on the website.

[legalalien]

?3k for that thing in ?dulwich Square?. Cllr Leeming feels the need to point out that neither he nor Cllr Newens have ever called it that and that it will be subject to appropriate licensing and social distancing.

[alice]

And talk of the ?Greening? of above location. A bit presumptuous.

[legalalien]

Yes i think they said ?300 now but they had a quote of ?40-?50k for the long term? What interests me is communities funding being funnelled into the highways budget. Vaguely recall that quite a bit of the DV CIL funding went the same way.

But that aside, some great community projects across the wards.

[Spartacus]

Just saw this on the news :

BBC News - Car smashes into Newham house in early hours

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56174464

It happened in an LTN which is a bit weird.

[legalalien]

Without knowing the area - seems like linking this to an LTN is a bit meaningless / trying to jump on the bandwagon of the current controversy about LTNs? Hoping that joyriding around quiet streets is not a thing.

[kiera]

In my experience, some drivers are going much too fast in some LTN roads. I think they are finding their normal route blocked and are frustratedly and impatiently driving down unfamiliar streets trying to get out.

[malumbu]

We used to get this off Granby Street in Toxteth. The council blocked off many of the side roads in the 70s to stop kerb crawling. This then made it ideal for dealing drugs in the 80s. Yoofs outside of L8 would nick cars and then race round the areas with the police in pursuit, turn down a side road not knowing the areas and smash into the bollards at the end. Locals would park their cars on the wide pavements because of all this. Obviously not linking LTNs with kerb crawling, drug dealing, and certainly not joy riding.

[Earl Aelfheah]

kiera Wrote:

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> In my experience, some drivers are going much too

> fast in some LTN roads. I think they are finding

> their normal route blocked and are frustratedly

> and impatiently driving down unfamiliar streets

> trying to get out.

If you go out early, when the roads are relatively quiet, the speeds generally, are incredible. Speeding is endemic and there is very little enforcement. See also, driving whilst on the phone. It?s all part of a culture of entitlement amongst car owners illustrated by the completely OTT reaction to fairly timid attempts at reducing traffic on a handful of minor roads.

[Bicknell]

And one of those minor roads @rahrahrah was studied by dr goodman, and here is what the dulwich alliance have to say about it

https://dulwichalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Wheres-the-evidence.pdf

[slarti b]

Rahrah,

Yet again demonising anyone who points out flaws in the council's botched schemes, asks how they will deal with the effects of displaced traffic or searches for some sort of compromise. Still, unlike ExDulwicher at least you are not suggesting we are all UKIP supporting SUV drivers who won't walk 500 metres.

btw I have a vague memory you are associated with Southwark Cyclists and\or London Cycling Campaign. If so, what do you think of Lambeth Cyclist Simon Still's racist rants, demonising drivers? Really shows up the prejudices of the the minority militant cycling lobby who are driving this absolutist agenda.

[malumbu]

Wow - rahrahrah points out the broader issue about the sense of entitlement that many drivers have (the 'right' to drive what you want, where you want, when you want, how you want') and you do exactly what he points out in your OTT response. I cycle but I don't know who Simon Still is, and I doubt whether he represents me and the millions of others who enjoy cycling should he have some unsavoury views. Most of these millions of cyclists are also car owners and can see things from the perspective of the driver too.

Also not sure who these militant cyclists are. Funny how two years ago many were lauding Greta Thunberg, Extinction Rebellion and the like. If you were in the vicinity of some the ER protests, you'd find that the militants were in the minority and most were relatively 'normal' people concerned that we are screwing up the planet.

[Rockets]

Malumbu - no Rahrahrah didn't talk about entitlement amongst "many" drivers but wrote about drivers per se - thereby tarring all drivers with the same brush - which seems to be part of the pro-closure lobby playbook - all drivers and cars are evil. And then you are, rightly, highlighting that Simon Still does not represent cyclists. So you cannot defend rahrahrah and then in the same breath criticise slarti. It cuts both ways.

Your highlighting of ER is a very good case in point that people often, initially, get behind a group or a cause but then the extreme fringes within in it cause people to question whether they want to publicly support that group - which is often a case of a few within the groups tarring everyone else with their brush!

[Metallic]

alice Wrote:

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> For Dulwich LTNs to centre themselves in the

> richest part of South Southwark is against

> everything Labour stands for.

> Love cycling Hate LTNs

And people living in the LTNs didn't ask for it. Once the coaches were re-routed the problem disappeared except for the hour when children go or come from school. School Streets? Maybe!

[Metallic]

legalalien Wrote:

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> ?3k for that thing in ?dulwich Square?. Cllr

> Leeming feels the need to point out that neither

> he nor Cllr Newens have ever called it that and

> that it will be subject to appropriate licensing

> and social distancing.

Except we all remember Councillor Newens calling it that on twitter when the planters were vandalised...................

[Earl Aelfheah]

Rockets Wrote:

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> Malumbu - no Rahrahrah didn't talk about

> entitlement amongst "many" drivers but wrote about

> drivers per se - thereby tarring all drivers with

> the same brush - which seems to be part of the

> pro-closure lobby playbook - all drivers and cars

> are evil.

I have not said all drivers are evil. I am a driver myself. Please calm down.

There haven't been road closures. We're not talking about widespread pedestrianisation.

re. entitlement, I talked in the context of endemic speeding, and individuals reacting in a completely over the top manner, to a fairly timid attempt to reduce the amount of traffic on minor roads. The kind of drivers who claim that people are part of a 'pro-closure lobby', or talk of people being 'evil' for example. Perhaps I need to say 'that's not everyone', but I think it's fairly self evident.

[alice]

?Harmony on the Square? costing ?3000 organised by ?Friends of the Square?

They have no shame.

[Earl Aelfheah]

slarti b Wrote:

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> Rahrah,

> Yet again demonising anyone who points out flaws

> in the council's botched schemes, asks how they

> will deal with the effects of displaced traffic or

> searches for some sort of compromise. Still,

> unlike ExDulwicher at least you are not suggesting

> we are all UKIP supporting SUV drivers who won't

> walk 500 metres.

Not demonising all motorists - suggesting that some reactions and behaviours suggest a sense of entitlement (specifically in those exhibiting them).

> btw I have a vague memory you are associated with

> Southwark Cyclists and\or London Cycling Campaign.

> If so, what do you think of Lambeth Cyclist Simon

> Still's racist rants, demonising drivers? Really

> shows up the prejudices of the the minority

> militant cycling lobby who are driving this

> absolutist agenda.

I'm not, and I've no idea who Simon Still is.

[Earl Aelfheah]

alice Wrote:

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> ?Harmony on the Square? costing ?3000 organised by

> ?Friends of the Square?

>

> They have no shame.

What's this?