LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Rockets]

It is completely crazy. What is also very telling is the list of stakeholders they have engaged with to get input on the closures:

Emergency Services - not overly happy about it

TFL buses - ok with it

Refuse Collection - not overly happy with it

Ward Councillors - advised the council to engage with residents to push a positive message to them about the closures

Southwark Cyclists - the council "accommodated all of the suggestions from Southwark Cyclists"

Very telling that the council prioritises and pro-actively requests the input of Southwark Cyclists over that of local residents and gives the cycle lobby the same weighting as emergency services etc. It's unbelievable that they would even allow this document to go public as it validates the fact that they are more interested in pandering to cycle lobbyists than they are to the views of local residents impacted by the schemes. It also shows there is increasing resistance from emergency services and refuse collection services.

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s91051/APPENDIX%201%20PECKHAM%20RYE.pdf

[JohnL]

They're still proceeding https://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/10414

and

"Following the 18-month trial, it is expected that these measures will be made permanent and additional measures to support walking and cycling will be implemented by making use of the increased space."

[Abe_froeman]

Unbelievable.

Is this East Dulwich's punishment for turning down the CPZ?

[slarti b]

Interesting post from Lewisham about the inevitable knock-on effect of recent LTN's, diverting traffic from wealthy areas onto "main" roads occuied by the less affluent. The author is "Local cyclist, environmentalist and Labour member"

https://onelewisham.co.uk/2020/09/28/the-ltn-and-the-horrified-cyclist/

[ab29]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So that will result in Upland Road being blocked

> off , traffic then diverting down Underhill Road

> which will then be blocked off and traffic

> diverting down Goodrich Road ....

>

> Before we know it every side road in Dulwich will

> either be clogged with traffic or blocked off.

>

> Did Grant Shapps say that he would intervene if

> councils abuse the scheme and introduce

> restrictions without consultation ?

>

> If so how can we get him involved to pause and

> review what Southwark Council are doing ?

Good idea re: contacting Grant Shapps. Everyone can email him individually but not sure if he/his office is going to reply. Perhaps OneDulwich could lead on that?

[Spartacus]

Whilst not quite East Dulwich I received, from one of my network contacts, a copy of a letter sent to the council by two ward panels over the problems experienced with the closure of Rye Lane.

It appears that residents are experiencing increases in crime and anti social behaviour as a result and also it highlights the problems created by the lack of emergency services access to Rye Lane and surrounding streets.

The council just seem to be ploughing ahead with the changes without considering feedback and concerns from Residents and Businesses.

[Abe_froeman]

Rye Lane is squalid now. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a crack/heroin epidemic there.

and this, form that letter, is utterly damning for the council "the local police teams, who have in depth knowledge of the area, were not consulted on the changes to Rye Lane in advance"

[Spartacus]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rye Lane is squalid now. It wouldn't surprise me

> if there is a crack/heroin epidemic there.

>

> and this, form that letter, is utterly damning for

> the council "the local police teams, who have in

> depth knowledge of the area, were not consulted on

> the changes to Rye Lane in advance"

I missed that when I read it, seems par for the course after seeing the comments on the phase 4 peckham rye closure.

[Metallic]

I've seen a bit on twitter from cyclists "knowing" that emergency services were contacted about the closures, but it is clearly not true.

I think we have all seen ambulances three point turning over the area. I know of someone who was being helped by paramedics who told her that they had not been able to get to a house call the day before because of planters and not being informed beforehand.

They are all sitting in traffic jams because the roads are so narrowed for cycle lanes that there is nowhere to pull in to allow these vehicles past. This will be happening in this area, very soon. Let's hope they are not on the way to your mum or granny, fervent cyclists.

[Penguin68]

The only remedy to this is through the ballot box (should we ever be allowed to vote again - clearly London Mayor is now a job for life).

We must hope that occasional car users (and people who have to breathe on the new designated traffic jam roads) outnumber cyclists.

[SE22_2020er]

I was talking to a childrens doctor at Kings who was very supportive of anything that can be done to reduce car use because of the damage to childrens lungs that she sees on a daily basis in the hospital.

Please tell all of your friends that if they need to drive then turn off their engines when they are not moving.

I don't know why the council doesn't put big signs up to tell people to turn their engines off if they are stuck in traffic. As I was walking along EDG this morning every car sitting in traffic had their engines turned on. Disgusting needless pollution damaging our childrens health.

[Rockets]

The council doesn't put big signs up because they don't want to acknowledge that they are making the problems worse!

In all seriousness, what the council are doing now will be contributing to a massive increase in pollution and, unfortunately, that doctor will be seeing the collateral damage from this in the coming months and years. Doing nothing is not an option but what the council are doing is making things a lot worse and they know it is and this is why they refuse to monitor pollution levels as they will be sky-rocketing on the closure displacement roads.

Meanwhile the message from the council is....give it time....but given the urgency they are trying to bring in closures to Burbage etc I am not convinced they really believe that time is what is needed and that the problem "evaporates" as they would like us all to believe.

[SE22_2020er]

@Rockets - you make some good points here and I can see where you are coming from and I agree that doing nothing is not an option. It breaks my heart when I see the levels of pollution along EDG with children walking along the pavement.

But i guess people are too selfish to only use their cars when they absolutely need to. If they did that then we would not need any of this.

[Abe_froeman]

Metallic, we had it on here that emergency services would be consulted:

" ed_pete June 06, 12:49PM

"But, isn?t it a coincidence that many of the measures they wanted to implement long, long before Covid just happen to somehow be exactly the right ?Fix? for the current situation?"

Spot on. This is opportunism of the worse kind dressed up as listening to concerned residents. The 70% number is meaningless and shouldn't be quoted as justification unless it was achieved fairly and can be thoroughly audited.

I presume the emergency services are OK with this btw."

Posted by jamesmcash June 06, 03:53PM

ed_pete

Yes emergency services need to be consulted before any measures like this are put in."

And:

Posted by first mate June 25, 08:01AM

James,

Is MG having planters as well as concrete bollards now or just the former? Are the planters easily moved for emergency vehicle access?

Planters

Posted by jamesmcash June 30, 11:46AM

first_mate - not sure of details re emergency services, but as I said before these things do have to be agreed with them"

So you would think it safe to take this as confirmation that the council had consulted and agreed all these measures with emergency services in advance.

[Rockets]

SE22_2020er Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @Rockets - you make some good points here and I

> can see where you are coming from and I agree that

> doing nothing is not an option. It breaks my

> heart when I see the levels of pollution along EDG

> with children walking along the pavement.

>

> i'm a fat middle aged lady who has just taken up

> walking 5 miles every day because I feel so guilty

> about the fact that i was one of the people that

> i'm talking about sitting in there car on EDG. And

> I don't like being so fat!

>

> but i guess people are to selfish to only use

> there cars when they absolutely need to. If they

> did that then we would not need any of this.

I think you are like a lot of people in that you are doing what you can and looking for different ways of getting around rather than a car. I think that is one of the few silver linings to come from this crisis in that people want to abandon car journeys as much as possible because 1) they want to get fitter and 2) it helps deal with the pollution challenges we are all so aware of. But, unfortunately, by trying to force change faster than it was happening naturally, and by closing roads, the council are making the problems a lot worse under the false idea that everyone will be able to stop using cars.

You and I and others on this forum, who are changing their driving habits, are amongst the 11% reduction in car use associated with LTNs across the country - unfortunately it's the remaining 89% who are being displaced that cause the problems we are seeing across Dulwich as the council chases the displacement.

[Abe_froeman]

On that 89%, presumably that is only 89% of people who woukd have driven down the closed roads still making their journey.

That IS, it doesn't take account of people who weren't going to drive down those roads anyway.

So or example Dulwich Village from Calton Avenue carries all of the traffic that it woukd have before plus 89% of the traffic that wpuld have gone down calton avenue, and 89% of traffic that would have gone down court lane, and soon 89% of the traffic thst would have used burbage road.

Is that right?

[Penguin68]

unfortunately it's the remaining 89% who are being displaced that cause the problems we are seeing across Dulwich as the council chases the displacement.

And who may be unable or unwilling to move to non-car journeys - through issues of age, infirmity, length of journey, need to carry stuff with them (for instance work vans, people with very young children etc.). Having been a previous two-wheeler a series of accidents (when I was knocked off my bike by (a) a stolen car and (b) a swinging artic turning cross me - I was stationary at lights at the time - persuaded me, once my casts were off, that two wheels was no longer am enticing option.

With public transport the joke locally that it is - particularly for those east west journeys apparently so hated by the apparat that they block roads to stop them - cars are the only option for many if their route isn't into town.

Of course the apparat (and Southwark cyclists) mantra is that if you can't or won't cycle, then you shouldn't be living in London (or anywhere else for that matter, why don't you just die you old bast*rd and get out of our righteous lives?). And, eventually, we will. And then you'll get old.

[SE22_2020er]

I don't think many people disagree that we all need a lot less car journeys in our cities (more difficult in the countryside). So what we need is more buses and things like Boris bikes. Then disabled and old people should be able to drive if they have got a proper blue sticker showing they can't use buses and tradespeople get permits to drive. the rest of us get off our arses and use public transport. if they can do it in Scandanavia then we can do it, right?

Not sure why its taken 63 pages of comments to get to that answer - I knew I was right :-)

[SE22_2020er]

penguin68 - yes your right - we need more buses so only old people and disabled people have to drive. the rest of us get off our arses and use public transport.

[Siduhe]

The bit about the Emergency Services not agreeing with any further closures (and the council's response that they think it's fine if services have key access) is interesting. About three weeks ago I was cycling home just coming up to Rye Lane (heading towards ED) - there was a strong smell of smoke in the air and 30 seconds later two fire engines came up Hanover Park looking to turn left into Rye Lane.

Fireman jumps out with key to remove the post blocking access. Key doesn't turn. It's the wrong key. They get on the radio and after about a minute (I'd stopped to watch by this point) some kind of message comes back that the lock/key has been changed recently and they don't have the right key. So they get out some kind of fancy angle grinder and just saw the lock off. But the swearing and cursing (most of it aimed at Southwark Council and Conway for some reason) was spectacular. I'm not surprised off the back of that experience that they are anti-further restrictions.

[dougiefreeman]

I received an email today to say that the petition can be presented to the next cabinet meeting as it had over 500 signatures.

Friday 20th Oct at 4pm although unfortunately I don?t think I can do it as I?m working.

Rockets, you fancy a 5 minute presentation on a zoom cabinet meeting?!

Interestingly, the petition was due to run from 18th Sept until the 21st Dec.

I got an email earlier saying the petition has now completed as it has had 2441 signatures.

I can?t verify whether the petition has been removed or not since the e-petitions website is not responding. But if they have removed it that surely is not cool? People were still signing it and with a ?support the road closures? petition on there now as well I can?t help but feel a little (more) cynical about the whole thing!

[dougiefreeman]

Actually just managed to get on, appears it is still live. Don?t know what that email meant!

[tiddles]

It took me 25 minutes to get from the primary school to the whately road traffic lights today. I could actually smell the fumes - pity the cyclists having to weave around the jams plus the walkers on the pavements.

I really cannot fathom where they think the cars are going to go. Public transport is not popular due to covid, but also these traffic jams make it ineffective. Alot of the vehicles are work type vans (yes lots of cars too)

would love to know what the pollution readings are at the moment - I suspect these will be well and truly buried.

[Rockets]

DougieFreeman - would love to although the council has to agree to my rider which is that I will insist on joining the Zoom call from my bike. I will start the call on one of the closed roads (preferably one with a string quartet playing on it in front of multi-million ? homes) and then cycle to the displacement roads and join the long line of traffic coughing and spluttering as I go. I will then tailgate a fire engine getting stuck in the traffic, interview the fire fighters from the window of their engine and then deliberately cycle into one of the Road Closed planters and scream: "Who put that stupid thing there?"

Tiddles - to bury something requires it to actually exist....by not taking any readings the council doesn't have to bury them.....;-) But I am sure the pollution estimates they are working on will be completely reliable, 100% accurate and available for in-depth scrutiny.....ahem....

[tiddles]

😂