LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Earl Aelfheah]

jane21 Wrote:

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> Hello Rahrahrah, it took 20 minutes for me to

> travel from pickwick to Woodwarde road with

> ladders; I am a local business and it is making

> life difficult. It will be far worse in early

> september.

That does seem like a long time. Waze suggests that it should be less than 10 minutes to do that journey, even in rush hour. Perhaps you were unlucky.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Metallic Wrote:

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> There has been plenty of complaints over the

> pedestrian crossing at the base of Calton Avenue

> and the danger to anyone using it, going back to

> the day it was unveiled. And it cost over half a

> million to make it so unusable we now have this

> version. people have been injured there in

> accidents, and who takes any notice? No one.

I'm not defending the previous changes to that junction, they were poorly thought out and didn't help the situation. That said, it was pretty hard work to cross there before then. The new scheme adds a little time to people driving that way, but removes it for people walking (and also makes it much safer).

[Ampersand]

Rockets Wrote:

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>

> No co-incidence is it that since the closures came

> into place Lordship Lane and the A205 have been

> snarled up most times of the day? East Dulwich

> Grove has seen a noticeable increase in the amount

> of traffic, but, of course, because the council

> aren't monitoring those places they have no data

> to show what is actually happening. How

> convenient.

>

I live next to the A205. My living room windows look out onto the stretch of the South Circular that runs up the hill from the Grove Tavern to the Horniman Museum and this assertion is basically untrue. I?m currently working from home and have regular opportunities to look out of the window. The traffic is no busier than it always has been.

[tiddles]

I think that mAy be because the snarled up traffic is then turning left to go into east dulwich as this is the route that has been blocked

[JohnL]

Boris and his "cycling czar" andrew gilligan have an important speech today on giving over large amounts of space to cyclists.

This is the master plan behind all the local authority schemes and will include a body called "active travel england".

[Metallic]

Ampersand Wrote:

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> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > No co-incidence is it that since the closures

> came

> > into place Lordship Lane and the A205 have been

> > snarled up most times of the day? East Dulwich

> > Grove has seen a noticeable increase in the

> amount

> > of traffic, but, of course, because the council

> > aren't monitoring those places they have no

> data

> > to show what is actually happening. How

> > convenient.

> >

>

> I live next to the A205. My living room windows

> look out onto the stretch of the South Circular

> that runs up the hill from the Grove Tavern to the

> Horniman Museum and this assertion is basically

> untrue. I?m currently working from home and have

> regular opportunities to look out of the window.

> The traffic is no busier than it always has been.

But it is backed up past Gallery Road going towards your leafy outlook, several times a day, as well as the usual fastish moving back up that goes from around Queen Alexandra Gate.

[snowy]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Boris and his "cycling czar" andrew gilligan have

> an important speech today on giving over large

> amounts of space to cyclists.

>

> This is the master plan behind all the local

> authority schemes and will include a body called

> "active travel england".

Walkers and cyclists;

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/904146/gear-change-a-bold-vision-for-cycling-and-walking.pdf

[mr.chicken]

Metallic Wrote:

> There has been plenty of complaints over the

> pedestrian crossing at the base of Calton Avenue

> and the danger to anyone using it, going back to

> the day it was unveiled. And it cost over half a

> million to make it so unusable we now have this

> version. people have been injured there in

> accidents, and who takes any notice? No one.

Seems like a dubious claim since the implication is that no one was bothered by the old junction. As far as I see, the works changed it from absolutely terrible to merely pretty bad.

The main problem is drivers got impatient trying to turn right out of Calton and would zoom around and straight at pedestrians trying to cross on a green man. This has now been fixed.

[Rockets]

Ampersand Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > No co-incidence is it that since the closures

> came

> > into place Lordship Lane and the A205 have been

> > snarled up most times of the day? East Dulwich

> > Grove has seen a noticeable increase in the

> amount

> > of traffic, but, of course, because the council

> > aren't monitoring those places they have no

> data

> > to show what is actually happening. How

> > convenient.

> >

>

> I live next to the A205. My living room windows

> look out onto the stretch of the South Circular

> that runs up the hill from the Grove Tavern to the

> Horniman Museum and this assertion is basically

> untrue. I?m currently working from home and have

> regular opportunities to look out of the window.

> The traffic is no busier than it always has been.

The issue is at the junction of the A205 and Lordship Lane at Grove Tavern (either turning right from the Lane onto the A205 or left in the opposite direction). It used to be bad during rush-hour - now it is bad all the time (and that's without the school traffic).

[Metallic]

mr.chicken Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Metallic Wrote:

>

> > There has been plenty of complaints over the

> > pedestrian crossing at the base of Calton

> Avenue

> > and the danger to anyone using it, going back

> to

> > the day it was unveiled. And it cost over half

> a

> > million to make it so unusable we now have this

> > version. people have been injured there in

> > accidents, and who takes any notice? No one.

>

> Seems like a dubious claim since the implication

> is that no one was bothered by the old junction.

> As far as I see, the works changed it from

> absolutely terrible to merely pretty bad.

>

> The main problem is drivers got impatient trying

> to turn right out of Calton and would zoom around

> and straight at pedestrians trying to cross on a

> green man. This has now been fixed.

You clearly haven't heard that the cyclists coming from Calton Avenue are on occasion cycling over and through the green pedestrian light on Turney Road. My friend was nearly knocked down, the cyclist stopped to tell her he was on a green, and she pointed out, so was she. One of her neighbours apparently knows the councillors and sent on her email about it, so I guess there is a bit of a problem. I haven't seen it myself but I am not out and about yet. "The main problem is drivers got impatient trying to turn right out of Calton and would zoom around and straight at pedestrians trying to cross on a green man." In all the years I have lived in my road and walked down Calton to take my children to school, I never once saw an incident like that, and certainly never since the crossing was redone the first time.

[exdulwicher]

They do seem to have altered the timing on the lights. I cycled through it from Turney Road straight on through the closure and up Calton the other morning, it was pretty quiet. The vehicle and cycle lights were both red so I waited in the cycle lane bit, a car pulled up next to me and waited at his red light. The cycling light turned green, pedestrian and vehicle lights remained on red. Vehicle light went green about 5 seconds after mine.

Not been through it often enough and at varied enough times recently to test it more thoroughly but I have ended up in the middle of that junction on my green with pedestrians crossing in their green in the past.

[tiddles]

Yes I had that too when cycling thru the junction - was given the green cycle light which clashed with the pedestrian green man

[Bicknell]

Railton Road closure was on Newsnight last night.

[jane21]

What did it say about Railton Road?

[Bicknell]

Railton Road and road closures is at the end -36 minutes in- last nights newsnight - here https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000l9x0/newsnight-29072020

[Dulres3]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> The point is that if someone really needs to use

> their car, this isn't going to stop them.

You?ve hit the nail on the head there. Ironically it appears that we agree the scheme only serves to make those necessary journeys more inconvenient by increasing journey times whilst at the same time being detrimental to all the things it purports to try to solve (pollution levels, congestion, quality of life etc)

These measures are a political statement and won?t be allowed to live or die on their own merits.

[mr.chicken]

Metallic Wrote:

> You clearly haven't heard that the cyclists coming

> from Calton Avenue are on occasion cycling over

> and through the green pedestrian light on Turney

> Road. My friend was nearly knocked down, the

> cyclist stopped to tell her he was on a green, and

> she pointed out, so was she. One of her

> neighbours apparently knows the councillors and

> sent on her email about it, so I guess there is a

> bit of a problem. I haven't seen it myself but I

> am not out and about yet. "The main problem is

> drivers got impatient trying to turn right out of

> Calton and would zoom around and straight at

> pedestrians trying to cross on a green man."

I said it turned from awful to merely bad. You know in the sense that I'd rather be run over by a bicycle than a car if I was forced to choose. All things considered I'd rather not be run over at all, and I'm not going to claim it was a good junction.

The thing that would have made it better is having much less time on green, larger red buffers and longer pedestrian time on green. Thing is that would have snarled up traffic along DV even more than it is now because it would have had even less car time on the junction. so that would have caused an even bigger gale of whinging from the car lobby.

> In

> all the years I have lived in my road and walked

> down Calton to take my children to school, I never

> once saw an incident like that, and certainly

> never since the crossing was redone the first

> time.

It certainly happened to me more than once. The very best times, some cars would get stuck on the junction trying to turn right on to DV. The lights would go read and the man green and the drivers would advance. Thin is there weren't any lights actually controlling that gap so the cars would have no idea whether or not they even could advance. Most of them in fairness would wait for people to stop crossing on green before escaping. Some wouldn't. For extra fun you'd get the back driver hooting and flashing and trying to bully the front driver to push through the pedestrians.

I actually exchanged pleasantries with a driver or two over that, something I'm glad I no longer need to do.

[Woodo]

If you went through the Village during the morning rush hour, even when only some of the school years were back, you would see the traffic jam extending from the crossroads near North Dulwich station to Dulwich Picture Gallery as the traffic light phases haven't been changed. Idling cars means a mass of pollution. Burbage Road is now more of a rat-run than ever.

Yes there are other ways to get around, but for some people the only viable way to get 2 children to different schools by a certain time means that driving may be the only possible option; yet it now takes even longer to drive between them. And the delay then impacts on the parent's working day.

I'm not sure how Melbourne Grove's closure has impacted, however at least there are a few main roads to use.

I understand something needs to be done, but it seems again that policy is being dictated by transport planners at the Council who have a blinkered view on everything: "I'm fine on a bike"; "children can walk or be walked to school" (which in an ideal world they all could be within easy walking distance).

I'm sure there will now be more vitriol about it's the entitled Village brigade in their tractors etc.

I would be happy with the junction closure had there been some sort of contingency planning ie addressing other routes, however it seems to have been like erecting a flood defence without considering where the run-off will go and causing potentially more damage as a result. The pollution in the Village at rush house is likely to now be far higher than it was before. But we'll have to wait to see the real impact when the schools go back at the end of the Summer holidays (or later...)

[JohnL]

They don't want a run off - they want less cars in total. Yellow School Buses need to be used for school. We had an ancient double decker when I was young and a very angry driver.

I notice delivery drivers and scaffolders have now been moving the blockade at Rye Lane so not sure if a change of guidance.

[redpost]

These closures also give pedestrians and cyclists low pollution routes.

Having asthma, when I'm running for exercise or cycling to a destination, I will always try to stick to 'cleaner' roads with less traffic and less pollution.

The railton road measures for example, now give me a 'clean' route to brixton by foot or by cycle.

Court lane closure gives me a cleaner route from the village to forest hill.

[macutd]

although these closures cause increased pollution with stationary, queuing cars to the two schools in the village.

They can't choose to move.

[dulwichquine]

Was driving through the village on Friday afternoon and was quite surprised how heavy traffic was as well as the tailback at the EDG junction. And this is during summer hols. Lots of kids walk along the village to schools, too. And on East Dulwich Grove. Also surprised at traffic on Townley Road exit. Looks like the signal priorities have changed. I fear it's going to be awful come September.

[mr.chicken]

Someone's cut the tubes on the pneumatic car counter on Calton avenue. It looks more like a deliberate disablement of it rather than kids vandalism.

One dulwich supporter?

[first mate]

Really, what is your evidence for that suggestion? How do you distinguish between deliberate disablement and vandalism?

Could it be an attempt by others to frame and discredit One dulwich, or does that seem a bit far-feteched?

[Rockets]

Someone has cut the one at the top of Court Lane too by the looks of things.

Mr Chicken, if the person who cut them, if it was someone cutting them, lives locally then I am sure they have registered their support for One Dulwich but you seem to be trying to discredit the group by association. Yet more deliberate public depositioning of the group and their supporters - what are you afraid of?

Interestingly I was in an Uber recently and the driver was passionately telling me that the restrictions in the area were ludicrous and how all the Uber drivers hate them and how he would like to move the planters. He was joking, of course, but there seems to be more evidence pointing to him than One Dulwich.....I hasten to add he hadn?t heard of One Dulwich.....;-)

P.S. If anyone has noticed a dearth of Ubers in the area recently the driver told me drivers are avoiding areas with road closures as it makes it difficult to get to fares due to the congestion caused around the closures.