LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Penguin68]

What all this does is cut out the flexibility of the area. On numerous occasions road works will close off one route - and traffic then re-routes to an alternative. But with the alternatives closed off - what chance does anyone (apart from pedestrians, perhaps) have? I remember the chaos when the South Circular was closed (completely) following a serious RTA - but there were escapes - now there won't be. It would be interesting to see just how keen our gauleiters would be if they were made personally, and fiscally, responsible for the costs to road users of this exercise. If emergency vehicles are held up, for instance, should they be charged with manslaughter or grievous bodily harm if people suffer as a consequence of their road closing and unthinking actions. Or for the respiratory health of those living in the roads they've condemned to standing traffic jams. But then, punishing the denizens of the 'leafy Dulwich' they evidently despise will be a win for them.

[kr988]

This is my unbiased opinion of the current changes. I?m an ED resident who has to drop my son at school in West Dulwich on the way to work. He will be walking from September to a nearer school and my older son cycles to Dulwich Park regularly so I can see the pros and cons.

1)For cyclists getting to the village from ED it?s much better with a free run down Carlton.

2)Despite Schools not at full capacity and people working from home traffic is really backed up through the Dulwich Village - I?d be very concerned about pollution levels for those walking through the village or in the playgrounds of both The Hamlet Schools.

3)Dulwich Common Road ( toward LL) is backed up with buses at a standstill.

4)EDG was not too bad - maybe because there is no backed up traffic from the junction of MG due to Melbourne being closed today. It must be safer for cars now but still hard to cross as cars are now turning at a speed into MG from EDG with no back up.

[slarti b]

I imagine this is severely affecting the P4 and probably also the 37 and 42 bus routes.

Has anyone had experience of these services yesterday or today?

[EDAus]

We knew the barrier had been installed as the traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased already with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to Lordship Lane in particular, a number speeding.

It is interesting to note double yellow lines have only been installed on one side of Melbourne Grove South which would not allow for a truck or anything bigger than a car to turn.

In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell Grove, a small narrow road which is not equipped for this high volume of traffic.

We have also been contacted by one of the emergency services as they have not been contacted / consulted on in relation to the closure, they requested additional information. I am concerned the road closure will lead to poorer outcomes for emergencies.

[KatyKoo]

At last a voice of reason :)

[KatyKoo]

The council ran a year long consultation - didn't you know? it got one of the highest responses ever in a Southwark consultation - over 2000. There were lots of posters around advertising public meetings, and leaflets, street stalls etc. Would have thought you being so knowledgeable on the subject you might have attended some of the meetings?

[KatyKoo]

Nope. They're all in their cars because too scared to use public transport. Do you read the news Slarti?

[Milan05]

Back in DV, some cars have worked out they can squeeze up and mount the pavement in between the churchyard wall and the last planter and drive on the pavement.. unreal.

[first mate]

That is most interesting. On another thread James McAsh gave the impression emergency services had been informed.

Am I alone in finding it odd the haste with which the council has forced through its OHS agenda, cynically using the Covid emergency to do so but, in the process, has seemingly failed to properly communicate with emergency services about street closures and the potential impact on those who might need those services?

EDAus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We knew the barrier had been installed as the

> traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased already

> with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to Lordship

> Lane in particular, a number speeding.

>

> It is interesting to note double yellow lines have

> only been installed on one side of Melbourne Grove

> South which would not allow for a truck or

> anything bigger than a car to turn.

>

> In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three

> cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell

> Grove, a small narrow road which is not equipped

> for this high volume of traffic.

>

> We have also been contacted by one of the

> emergency services as they have not been contacted

> / consulted on in relation to the closure, they

> requested additional information. I am concerned

> the road closure will lead to poorer outcomes for

> emergencies.

[KatyKoo]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They're being asked to implement these measures

> *specifically* via the ETRO process, by both the

> Mayor, and the DfT, as a way to enable active

> travel as a response to coronavirus. This is an

> emergency, and the appropriate tools are being

> used.

At last a voice of reason :)

[bels123]

EDAus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We knew the barrier had been installed as the

> traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased already

> with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to Lordship

> Lane in particular, a number speeding.

>

> In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three

> cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell

> Grove, a small narrow road which is not equipped

> for this high volume of traffic.

Of course it will take some time for drivers to figure out it?s no longer a shortcut. This is to be expected (especially on day 1!) and it?s reasonable to expect it to take awhile to settle down. Will be so much better for all the roads off Melbourne when it does. Give it a month or so.

[exdulwicher]

Back in DV, some cars have worked out they can squeeze up and mount the pavement in between the churchyard wall and the last planter and drive on the pavement.. unreal.

Same in Lewisham, there was a tweet earlier which got loads of retweets showing cars driving up over the pavement to get round a recently installed set of planters.

A lot of the problem so far is people ignoring the No Through Road signs up at the top of Woodwarde, driving down there and turning left and then finding that actually the sign meant something. Possibly that there's no through road. 🤦

Then they turn round and race off in a cloud of frustration and exhaust fumes. No matter how many signs you put in, there's always a significant % of drivers think that somehow it doesn't apply to them...

It'll settle in once people stop being such idiots.

[EDAus]

Please provide the evidence for your statement 'Will be so much better for all the roads off Melbourne when it does.'

I am looking forward to reading this while we are blighted by increasing traffic, fumes and speeding.

Many of these cars / vans are coming from Melbourne Grove and roads leading off it, residents on Melbourne Grove South have admitted on social media they will use our road to enter and exit their own road.

bels123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> EDAus Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We knew the barrier had been installed as the

> > traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased

> already

> > with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to

> Lordship

> > Lane in particular, a number speeding.

> >

> > In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three

> > cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell

> > Grove, a small narrow road which is not

> equipped

> > for this high volume of traffic.

>

>

> Of course it will take some time for drivers to

> figure out it?s no longer a shortcut. This is to

> be expected (especially on day 1!) and it?s

> reasonable to expect it to take awhile to settle

> down. Will be so much better for all the roads off

> Melbourne when it does. Give it a month or so.

[first mate]

Given these are emergency measures why, as Ed Aus alludes to, are emergency services not fully in the loop? That strikes me as very odd and, if true, a significant oversight.

Surely those MG residents that asked for this road closure are not themselves continuing to use cars. Shouldn?t they now be forced to walk, cycle or take the bus?

KatyKoo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > They're being asked to implement these measures

> > *specifically* via the ETRO process, by both

> the

> > Mayor, and the DfT, as a way to enable active

> > travel as a response to coronavirus. This is an

> > emergency, and the appropriate tools are being

> > used.

>

> At last a voice of reason :)

[EDAus]

Agree first mate it is a major concern, I don't want to be unfair to the service thus I will not be publishing details or names.

It has formed evidence in concerns we have raised with the Local Government Ombudsman, Opposition Party in Southwark, Funding providers (TFL, Mayor), Helen Hayes MP and the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

[eastdulwichlocal99]

.

[first mate]

I would have thought it was entirely reasonable to be concerned about emergency service access. If those services have not been properly involved in the process of road closures that strikes me as very odd.

[mockingbird]

And this year long 'consultation' was founded on a tiny Phase 2 sample who apparently said 'they wanted it' which led to a Phase 3 OHSD single consultation on fixed closures for Area B. I am bemused that you believe the Council and Cllrs statements despite their continuing attempts to suppress disclosure of the details! That's how they push silly schemes through on their political agendas.

KatyKoo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The council ran a year long consultation - didn't

> you know? it got one of the highest responses ever

> in a Southwark consultation - over 2000. There

> were lots of posters around advertising public

> meetings, and leaflets, street stalls etc. Would

> have thought you being so knowledgeable on the

> subject you might have attended some of the

> meetings?

[eastdulwichlocal99]

.

[slarti b]

KatyKoo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The council ran a year long consultation - didn't you know? it got one of the highest responses ever

> in a Southwark consultation - over 2000. There were lots of posters around advertising public

> meetings, and leaflets, street stalls etc. Would have thought you being so knowledgeable on the

> subject you might have attended some of the meetings?

Very misleading statement. According to the council the measures put forward for rubber stamping in Phase 3 were decided during the phase 2 consultation. According to you and other posters, phase 2 was a huge consultation involving workshops ( 3 I think?) posters, advertising etc etc. So how many responses were there to the section on the DV Junction? 217 online responses and the council has refused to say where those responses come from. Not a solid basis to make huge changes to a consultations area with around 7-8,000 adults is it?

And sadly, following the failure of Southwarks previous schemes and disillusionment with tainted consultation processes, many residents have given up since they feel the council ignores them and just goes ahead with what it had already decided.

You seem to know a lot about the consultation process, what meetings did the Village councillors have with the RAs or

other groups represneting Area B before the Phase 3 plans were published in Jan 2020?

[northernmonkey]

In what capacity did the emergency services contact you (all of them?) ? If they're proactively 'ringing round' it seems unlikely they haven't got in touch with Southwark too!

EDAus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We knew the barrier had been installed as the

> traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased already

> with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to Lordship

> Lane in particular, a number speeding.

>

> It is interesting to note double yellow lines have

> only been installed on one side of Melbourne Grove

> South which would not allow for a truck or

> anything bigger than a car to turn.

>

> In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three

> cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell

> Grove, a small narrow road which is not equipped

> for this high volume of traffic.

>

> We have also been contacted by one of the

> emergency services as they have not been contacted

> / consulted on in relation to the closure, they

> requested additional information. I am concerned

> the road closure will lead to poorer outcomes for

> emergencies.

[tiddles]

So I have a few acquaintances who live I Dalton, Druce and Woodwarde road - they are furious.

[eastdulwichlocal99]

.

[Rockets]

As we know from Loughborough Junction, complaints from emergency services are often the undoing of ill-thought out and badly implemented council plans! Time will tell on this one too. And remember, it?s not about access per se but the congestion pressure these measures create elsewhere leading to delays in response times and putting lives at risk.

[EDAus]

Once again a steady stream of unsubstantiated statements................

Before commenting it would help to read the wording of posts, we were contacted by 'one emergency services body'.

Are you only allowed one ground of objection - is that rule for everyone or just me? Feeling special now.