Brexit has Officially become UK Law

[Blah Blah]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What do we think will happen when Johnson requests

> the 2 year extension?

I thought he is unable to do that? Doesn't his Brexit Bill tie us to the end of transition date he has set?

[Sephiroth]

"tie" is a very vague concept these days. regardless he will have to find away around it because he will know what happens to the country if he doesn't get an extension

as for the food standards thing - many people love to handwave that away with "if it's good enough for the americans" etc

But it isn't just about the end product - it's about the lack of animal and welfare standards which require the chlorination for example. Many of the leavers I know are big on animal welfare so it's hard to know how it all squares

[pk]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is a long list of

> carcinogenic toxins that the US allows to be used.

sand I guess that we will have to concede to using some of them if Boris thinks that selling out to the US (and accepting the increased carbon footprint)saves the day

writing our own rules is all very well, until we want to do trade deals with other countries with their own (different) rules - something will have to give and I guess that the country under more pressure to do a deal will be the one making most of the concessions

[Grove boy]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As for the bogus claim ?this isn?t what we signed

> up for

>

>

> https://fullfact.org/europe/ask-full-fact-eu-then-

> and-now/

>

> (I love how people who claim they were lied to in

> the 70s weren?t lied to now. Now, they are super

> smart and in no way subject to misinformation. No

> sireee. Also. They are all on the same page. So

> never mind that leave reassured us we would NOT be

> leaving the single market before the referendum.

> Now we just have to accept. ?We knew what we voted

> for?

>

> Sure ya did. All 17 million. All on the same

> page. Sure

What was the original purpose of the EEC? Was it this? https://www.tni.org/en/guarding-the-fortress

Secondly where do you see the Eu in 5 years, still the same or maybe more neoliberalism, cheap labour, tearing the fabric and traditions of it's members countries?

You keep ranting, moaning and being ignorant, you won the arguement,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Sephiroth]

The eu in 5 years will be much as it is now

As will all the meme we countries. I will go back to Ireland and they will all be getting on just fine thanks for asking. They will be pissed off about the British border because despite being repeatedly told you would need one you arrogantly yet constantly said otherwise.

Where will the uk be in 5 years time? Looking to get back in to the eu but with a higher price to pay I reckon

[Sephiroth]

?maybe more neoliberalism, cheap labour, tearing the fabric and traditions of it's members countries? ?

I mean you are hardly without an agenda here. And you obviously see the eu as some root of these things

But if you think the eu is going to be LESS any of those things in the coming years outside the eu, you have a rude awakening ahead

[uncleglen]

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> >

> > But why do we have to pay ?Billions to have them

> inforced.

>

> Why do you pay taxes?

> It's because collectively funding things is far

> better than just each individual (or each country

> in this case), making do by itself. It's because

> by working together as one entity, ecah chipping

> in bits here and there, each drawing on expertise

> and experience and labour and resources, you can

> do amazing things collectively that would be

> impossible on your own.

>

> Gallileo (the European GPS project), the European

> Space Agency, Euratom (the European Atomic Energy

> Community), one joint set of standards or rules or

> laws that work across countries, Europol (the

> European version of Interpol), the Eurofighter.

> Loads of major infrastructure projects requiring

> specialist resources.

>

> Funds can be allocated to deprived regions that

> the country itself could not afford. The UK has

> been a major recipient of EU grant funding over

> the decades, countless projects funded (or part

> funded) when Government could not or would not pay

> the full amount.

>

> In three days time, we cast ourselves adrift from

> all of that (although we still have to pay tens of

> billions of pounds of previously committed funds,

> this time without any benefit or gain from that).

Rose-tinted spectacles here methinks....Greece...tax evasion is a national pastime. Funds are allocated to deprived regions of the EU...I know for a fact that there is massive fraud and diversion of funds in Romania.

European Space Agency...what's the point?

Euratom...CERN were doing very well years before the EU.

The UK may have got some money back BUT the EU told us where and how to spend it.

Unelected bureaucrats controlling OUR lives and 'earning' ?25,000 a MONTH- can't be justified.

We are fined every year because we breach air quality rules set down by the EU....they do not take into account the increase in our population, the amount of cheap building work going on all over London, generating piles of dust.

I personally loved Nigel Farage's Leaving speech...and the response of the Irish woman twisting his words was priceless- and so typical

[stepdown]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Food standards are not minor matters Stepdown.

Never said they were, but I think the chlorinated chicken issue is, we only impart importance on it because indirectly it allows for lower welfare standards for poultry. The point I was attempting to make was that characterising EU legislation as "all pretty benign and helpful and low level" wasn't fair and that just because it was being replaced with UK legislation didn't mean it was "low level non contentious stuff".

I agree all the points you raise are important, they'll also become contentious in the US trade deal negotiations.

[JohnL]

Considering WFH tomorrow even though I wasn't planning on it.

I've a bad feeling there will be some looking for trouble.

[Captain Marvel]

I occasionally feel inclined to stick up for Uncle and Leavers generally (despite not being one), and there's little doubt that Farage is a top notch rabble rouser, but the sight of those grinning fools waving their little flags in the Parliament was puke inducing

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Considering WFH tomorrow even though I wasn't

> planning on it.

>

> I've a bad feeling there will be some looking for

> trouble.

I know, Friday's in Waitrose Food Hall can seem like Beirut when advocados are on special offer...

[Seabag]

Here we go, Boris and his government making good on their getting stuff done mantra. They?re taking back control control. No more Brussels telling us what to do, nope! We?re perfectly capable of taking something good and fcuking up for ourselves, and this proves the point.

Of course by the time we get to even discuss this it?ll be Friday, where come rain or shine (we?re getting rain on Friday btw) we leave the EU and this story will get drowned out. If anyone can argue this is a progressive step, then I?m all ears.

A little glimpse of the future re travel to Europe.

Post December 31st we go backwards, to more red tape, increased travel costs and a backward step in communications.

https://apple.news/ASXxspjgXQ4qcUWWHkpdvKQ

One day before the UK leaves the European Union, the government has revealed that British holidaymakers and business travellers to the EU face onerous changes when the transition agreement expires on 31 December.

Many aspects of travel were previously uncertain, but it appears that the government has already made up its mind that, for visitors to the remaining 27 European Union countries, it will be a hard Brexit.

For the remainder of 2020, no rules on travel will change. But once the transition ends, visitors to Europe will face much more red tape and expense than the travel industry had previously hoped.

The new online advice says the guarantee of free mobile phone roaming throughout the EU will end.

Motorists will need a "green card" - a certificate extending their travel insurance to Europe

[JohnL]

You'll have to go through the ETIAS scheme from 2021 to enter the EU for 90 days or less.

Although for most it's not a huge issue there will be issues for some - you might even find yourself on a blacklist as in ESTA (people with any drug convictions cannot travel to the US for instance).

https://www.etias.info/visa-requirements/uk-citizens/

[diable rouge]

If it's not bad enough that UK expats (immigrants really) who are being flown over from China have to spend 2 weeks in quarantine, they also have to do it on the Wirral...

[diable rouge]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I occasionally feel inclined to stick up for Uncle

> and Leavers generally (despite not being one), and

> there's little doubt that Farage is a top notch

> rabble rouser, but the sight of those grinning

> fools waving their little flags in the Parliament

> was puke inducing

Certainly quite the contrast to the singing of Auld Lang Syne to departing UK MEPs, and tonight Brussels is lit up with the colours of the Union Jack...

[IlonaM]

Events for those who want to show solidarity with our EU friends and family:

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/shine-through-the-darkness-towns-across-the-uk-along-thames-london-eye-tickets-89162536547

LONDON

(The London events listed here have been checked with Met Police and are co-ordinating with the policing plan to ensure safety)

Shine through the Darkness/ Not in Our Name, LONDON 31st Jan 10.30pm-11.30pm , beside the Thames ,Queen?s Walk London South Bank, north/east of London Eye. (Twitter @our_kate ) For legal reasons please don?t demonstrate within the park, and keep public right of way passable.

"If you're not indifferent then don't be invisible. SHOW that Farage and Johnson don?t speak for you. Stand up for the values and rights which are under attack and express our hope for eventual reunion. Let phone torches be seen shimmering a message of solidarity beside the Thames, and shine a light on the lack of consent (from younger generations, from the devolved countries etc.) and lack of accountability (think Russia Report etc) that is involved in Brexit. Keys jingle, symbolising the protections and freedoms we are determined to fight for.? Spread the word, it's down to YOU! This Initiative has zero pence funding.

31st Jan 2.30-5.30pm A bientot/see you soon procession Downing Street-St John Smith Square European Commission offices

31st Jan 5-8pm Mayor's Event for European Londoners on Brexit Day City Hall

31st Jan 5.30-11.30pm Don?t Make Citizens Pay the Price of Brexit New Europeans? silent march and candlelit vigil for citizens? rights, route and location TBC in coordination with Met Police)

[hammerman]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If it's not bad enough that UK expats (immigrants

> really) who are being flown over from China have

> to spend 2 weeks in quarantine, they also have to

> do it on the Wirral...

How patronising! I'm sure that UK expats would be glad to be flown over to anywhere in the UK!

[Captain Marvel]

Here ye go Devil, I know you're a Brendan fan

[hammerman]

IlonaM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Events for those who want to show solidarity with

> our EU friends and family:

>

> https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/shine-through-the-d

> arkness-towns-across-the-uk-along-thames-london-ey

> e-tickets-89162536547

>

> LONDON

>

> (The London events listed here have been checked

> with Met Police and are co-ordinating with the

> policing plan to ensure safety)

>

> Shine through the Darkness/ Not in Our Name,

> LONDON 31st Jan 10.30pm-11.30pm , beside the

> Thames ,Queen?s Walk London South Bank, north/east

> of London Eye. (Twitter @our_kate ) For legal

> reasons please don?t demonstrate within the park,

> and keep public right of way passable.

>

> "If you're not indifferent then don't be

> invisible. SHOW that Farage and Johnson don?t

> speak for you. Stand up for the values and rights

> which are under attack and express our hope for

> eventual reunion. Let phone torches be seen

> shimmering a message of solidarity beside the

> Thames, and shine a light on the lack of consent

> (from younger generations, from the devolved

> countries etc.) and lack of accountability (think

> Russia Report etc) that is involved in Brexit.

> Keys jingle, symbolising the protections and

> freedoms we are determined to fight for.? Spread

> the word, it's down to YOU! This Initiative has

> zero pence funding.

>

> 31st Jan 2.30-5.30pm A bientot/see you soon

> procession Downing Street-St John Smith Square

> European Commission offices

>

> 31st Jan 5-8pm Mayor's Event for European

> Londoners on Brexit Day City Hall

>

> 31st Jan 5.30-11.30pm Don?t Make Citizens Pay the

> Price of Brexit New Europeans? silent march and

> candlelit vigil for citizens? rights, route and

> location TBC in coordination with Met Police)

Have a lovely day/evening!

[dbboy]

Can't you accept the democratic decision made by the people in 2016.

[diable rouge]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here ye go Devil, I know you're a Brendan fan

>

>

There's no way I'm clicking on that, it always starts off with a curiosity sniff of Brendan, and before you know it, it's mainlining InfoWars...

[diable rouge]

hammerman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If it's not bad enough that UK expats

> (immigrants

> > really) who are being flown over from China

> have

> > to spend 2 weeks in quarantine, they also have

> to

> > do it on the Wirral...

>

> How patronising! I'm sure that UK expats would be

> glad to be flown over to anywhere in the UK!

Guess who's never been to the Wirral...

[uncleglen]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Can't you accept the democratic decision made by

> the people in 2016.

Of curse they can't because they cannot understand it, and think they are superior!

[Blah Blah]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> writing our own rules is all very well, until we

> want to do trade deals with other countries with

> their own (different) rules - something will have

> to give and I guess that the country under more

> pressure to do a deal will be the one making most

> of the concessions

And this is precisely why there is no such thing as a free trade deal. The all come with negotiated conditions, not just in terms of which good and services are part of the deal, but also the regulations that made in alignment. This is also why they take so long to negotiate, and yes, the bigger market always has the advantage.

[Blah Blah]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Can't you accept the democratic decision made by

> the people in 2016.

Can't you accept that people still have the right to campaign for things they believe in?