Brexit has Officially become UK Law

[stepdown]

TheCat Wrote:

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> So is it unacceptable to the crowd here that

> someone can vote on principle is sovereignty

> without necessarily knowing all the detail of

> EU/UK legislation? Surely many people voted remain

> becuase 'it would better for the economy' without

> being experts in economics or trade regulations?

Most could have quite easily pointed you in the direction of the reports put out by "experts in economics" that estimated the impact on the economy. Of course it was derided as "Project Fear" but the information was readily available.

[Sephiroth]

"So what can you do....just argue on the edf I guess..."

you can imagine how that makes me feel

well - you can do more than imagine

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

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> Also, I don't disagree with the supermajority

> clause for such a big change. But we didn't....So

> what can you do....just argue on the edf I

> guess...

There's a private members bill going through now - it must be tempting for Boris to give it government support and scupper any further referendums on brexit or independence.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-trying-pass-new-referendums-21286697

[Blah Blah]

Dulwich Fox wrote

'But why do we have to pay ?Billions to have them inforced.'

We don't pay ?11 billion for that. We pay it so that UK businesses can have tariff free trade with 500 million consumers, tariffs that would cost ?40 billion outside of the EU with no trade deal. So once again you show how little you really understand.

[Captain Marvel]

Hopefully this will lift Seph's spirits

[exdulwicher]

DulwichFox Wrote:

>

> But why do we have to pay ?Billions to have them inforced.

Why do you pay taxes?

It's because collectively funding things is far better than just each individual (or each country in this case), making do by itself. It's because by working together as one entity, ecah chipping in bits here and there, each drawing on expertise and experience and labour and resources, you can do amazing things collectively that would be impossible on your own.

Gallileo (the European GPS project), the European Space Agency, Euratom (the European Atomic Energy Community), one joint set of standards or rules or laws that work across countries, Europol (the European version of Interpol), the Eurofighter. Loads of major infrastructure projects requiring specialist resources.

Funds can be allocated to deprived regions that the country itself could not afford. The UK has been a major recipient of EU grant funding over the decades, countless projects funded (or part funded) when Government could not or would not pay the full amount.

In three days time, we cast ourselves adrift from all of that (although we still have to pay tens of billions of pounds of previously committed funds, this time without any benefit or gain from that).

[Sephiroth]

Fine arguments exD

But have a look at that ?we? in foxys question.

It?s all down to ?us? and ?them?

He never answers questions about why other countries don?t see the same problems he and other leavers do

?Us?

?Them?

[TheCat]

This is in no way an argument for leave or reMain. But a direct retort to the comment above....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism

[citylover]

Regarding 'ignorant people like you are prepared to risk the future economy of the UK and livelihoods of who knows how many

people for that ignorance.'- the problem here is that the people you worry about don't want or need you to worry on their behalf, they're perfectly capable of doing their own worrying. If you like, Leavers can provide uou the same offer and worry about how little you understand why so many people voted out.

Regarding 'If I was a leaver I would also ponder why, if it was such a good idea, other countries aren't picking up a similar baton'- this is an easy one, they simply don't understand what the EU project is about. A great example of this is Puigdemont, President of the very successful Catalan region, except ex-pres now. One can assume he"s clever, anyway, As a socialist he felt safe in the knowledge that the EU was his friend, until his party held the vote for independence. When it all went pear-shaped he went straight to the EU to ask for their support but naturally on a question of independence and autonomy they weren't sympathetic at all. They have, since the matter's so public, given him refuge but that won't be an option if anyone tries independence in the future, he just unwittingly shone a light on their superstate aims and they couldn't have given him up to Madrid without showing how dangerous and ruthless they are.

Other countries like those in the Eastern block, think the EU is benign primarily because they haven't experienced a (used to be) real democracy like the UK to compare it with. Like a Bulgarian friend told me, "It's better than what we have at home"

Re Italy, Greece etc, I cd go on but got to get back to work.

[TheCat]

Are you talking to me?

[Sephiroth]

? Regarding 'If I was a leaver I would also ponder why, if it was such a good idea, other countries aren't picking up a similar baton'- this is an easy one, they simply don't understand what the EU project is about?

Only England eh?

The sheer, total arrogance of it

[Blah Blah]

Yep, arrogance indeed. I was right to point to the ignorance on display from DF. That is not merely opinion, it is there for everyone to see for themselves. As for worry, leave voters are not an island. If the economy struggles we ALL suffer. If worker protections are removed, we ALL suffer. If we let ignorance reign, we ALL suffer. But not the millionaires who conned people into voting for Brexit of course. They will continue as before.

[bsand]

With what we see with the coronavirus panic in China (I am hugely confident it will probably be less than swine flu in the end and that killed a million and infected 10% of the world). Social media can fuel unprecedented panic and cause intense firestorms of misinformation. In a couple of weeks the virus storm will no doubt have calmed down and it will be business as usual. Sadly we still have Trump to thank for that and in the case of UK Brexit, which will blight a generation. Thank you Facebook turns out you aren't free after all.

[JohnL]

bsand Wrote:

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> With what we see with the coronavirus panic in

> China (I am hugely confident it will probably be

> less than swine flu in the end and that killed a

> million and infected 10% of the world). Social

> media can fuel unprecedented panic and cause

> intense firestorms of misinformation. In a couple

> of weeks the virus storm will no doubt have calmed

> down and it will be business as usual. Sadly we

> still have Trump to thank for that and in the case

> of UK Brexit, which will blight a generation.

> Thank you Facebook turns out you aren't free after

> all.

It's the ability to spread which makes this one frightening and spreading within the incubation period. I believe it's already here in London, but hopefully nothing like the mortality of Spanish Flu.

Do remember though that Spanish Flu mutated after the initial outbreak to become more deadly but that happens in war zones where the people with the worst versions of the virus are moved. In normal situations the people with the better versions move whilst those with the worst versions stay put. I shouldn't watch Pandemic all the way through :)

[Alan Medic]

DulwichFox Wrote:

> I know that if were say the World was Round,

> there are people on here would disagree with me.

>

> Well they all laughed at Christopher Columbus ,

> didn't they.

> I know what he was up against.

I'm not sure what you think you have in common with 'ol CC Fox, but he set out to find India and voila, we have the West Indies.

[Blah Blah]

The other thing to remember with Spanish Flu is that it happened at a time when there were no vaccines or antibiotics. Also, in the aftermath of a war, there is malnutrition and immune systems are weakened beyond where they would be. Today we live in an entirely different world. There are experts constantly scanning for signs of new viruses and the response is always swift and effective. The mortality rate from coronavirus so far appears to be around the 2-3% mark. To put that into context, seasonal flu has a mortality rate of around or less than 1%. The other thing to consider also is that the pneumonia component of these flu viruses is what generally causes death in vulnerable groups. But even in a healthy person, a period of pneumonia can take many months to fully recover from, leaving the immune system compromised. This is why follow up mutations tend to be more deadly if a large number of people have already been infected with the first mutation. And it goes without saying that suddenly large numbers of people presenting with pneumonia puts medical services under server pressure as they all need treatment. Hence why the Chinese are building pop up hospitals in the outbreak area.

[JohnL]

I'm actually pretty sure my sudden cough and hot flush are psychosomatic - I itched for weeks after the bed bug thread after all.

It's scary though.

[JohnL]

Anyway back to the thread - I notice Farage is speaking out about being the pantomime villain and it's pretty obvious that he loves that role. A lot of the Tories in college liked being that too (causing chaos at student union meetings etc.) and I see the comparison.

Grimes and Harwood have a bit of this about them too when on TV.

[edcam]

Dulwich Fox clearly demonstrating here why referenda are a terrible idea.

'Mrs. Brown's Boys' won best comedy at the NTAs last night. Brexit in a nutshell.

[Hemingway]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> stepdown Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > DulwichFox Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Since then, if there has been a conflict

> between

> > national law and European law the UK courts

> have

> > to give priority to European law.

> >

> > Everybody in this thread understands that, the

> > question you are unable or unwilling to engage

> > with is which laws or conflicts specifically

> were

> > unacceptable to you.

>

> As I said there are over 4,200 of them.

> I do not know what those laws are or how they

> affect us .... and that's the problem

We could have vetoed anyone of these, I suspect they are all pretty benign and helpful and low level; most of these are going to be fast tracked exactly into our own law as they currently are as we'll need them still and they are non-contentious; I'd be interested if you could tell me say even 5% all of the legislation that our own parliament has passed since 1973?

[stepdown]

Hemingway Wrote:

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> I suspect they are all pretty benign and helpful

> and low level

Adding more vague assumptions is pretty unhelpful when you end the post holding DulwichFox to a higher standard.

[Hemingway]

I.m not holding him to a higher standard. I don't know 5% of the legislation passed by the UK parliament since 1973 either because much of it is low level non contentious stuff. Most of the EU law that we use is being fast tracked as is into English law as part of the Brexit process precisely because it's non-contentious.

[Sephiroth]

What do we think will happen when Johnson requests the 2 year extension?

[stepdown]

Hemingway Wrote:

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> I.m not holding him to a higher standard. I don't

> know 5% of the legislation passed by the UK

> parliament since 1973 either

...okay.

We can all agree that there will be no divergence of legislation to begin with, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that means it's not contentious and that there won't be more arguments in the future. Just look at the chlorinated chicken nonsense for how contentious relatively minor matters can become.

[Blah Blah]

Food standards are not minor matters Stepdown. All kinds of things are used in food and cosmetic production in the US that are banned in the EU. Formaldehyde is one such toxic ingredient. Parabens are another. On food directly, Potassium Bromate and Azodicarbonamide are banned in the EU because they are thought to cause cancer. They are used in baked goods in the US though. Brominated Vegetable Oil is another permitted ingredient in the US but is banned in the EU because it deposits bromine in the body which can damage memory and the nervous system. There is a long list of carcinogenic toxins that the US allows to be used.