Brexit has Officially become UK Law

[Sephiroth]

Let?s look a Remain voter who ?changed their mind? over Brexit.

Did a review of his business and though actually Brexit would be good for his business

https://news.sky.com/story/norton-motorbike-boss-brexit-has-kicked-us-up-the-backside-11662637

Fast forward to this year. Oh dear

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal

Positive thinking and government support (necessary because of said positive thinking. No point addressing facts) only get you so far

Can?t help thinking it will serve as an allegory for the whole debacle in years to come

[diable rouge]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> You are being lied to. By your own government.

>

> But the problem is you don?t care

>

> Until people care about being lied to this is all

> futile. Dangerous. But futile

FT journo David Allen Green writes a lot about this. Brexiters will allow anything to be said and done, even outright lies, if it's seen to be to the benefit of Brexit. That isn't reasonable debate, it's ideological madness...https://twitter.com/davidallengreen

[Sephiroth]

He does. He gets called a remainer a lot but he has a history of wanting out of eu. After Maastricht he just felt the price wasn?t worth paying. Now it?s done he is happy to not rejoin but favours close alignment with all that entails

Which is of course anathema to most leavers and their cheerleaders in government

If Boris goes down that route his government hits the rocks

If he goes down his current route if no alignment/no deal then his government hits the rocks

As ever the same problem is reality. And no one ?on that side? has faced up to it yet. They can jeer that we are out of the eu and people like me aren?t facing up to reality. But that?s just whistling in the dark.

[Blah Blah]

Well it all boils down to the inability or unwillingness to look at and discuss details from leavers isn't it? Citylover seems not to understand that only 13 per cent of UK law is impacted by EU directives and that WE were very influential in shaping those directives. Yes that is right. The governments that WE elected to act on our behalf over the decades. I am willing to bet that Citylover won't be able to cite a single piece of legislation that negatively impacts him/ her either. Citylover, who seems to think Brussels dictates and yet won't be able to explain how we got exemptions written into Maastricht that mean members don't have to join the Euro or be part of Schengen. Such ignorance should be called out and in fact, the reason why some leavers resort to insults and calling the other side scum is precisely because they understand so little that they can not engage in any kind of meaningful debate. Far easier to bully instead.

[pk]

citylover Wrote:

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> So, "To use a 'foreign' word is not a good look?

Who are you quoting? It?s not me, I said ?schadenfreude is not a good look?

Are you so blinkered that you can?t even see words in other languages?

[Sephiroth]

Citylover believes in plans for a one world government. Their language is extremely fekking

If their hard drive was examined it would be genuinely frightening

[Grove boy]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

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> Grove boy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > See, you're still frothing, So much harm? you

> > sound like you've been brainwashed.

>

>

> That's because they are brainwashed.

>

> If they seriously wanted to hear what leavers have

> to say; what they think and want, they would have

> turned up to Q&A events, held by

> leavers/conservatives. Turning Point UK for

> example, anyone? Didn't think so. Would have loved

> to see those smug expressions wiped off of your

> faces in a real debate... y'know, instead of

> attacking DulwichFox? I mean... low blow.

>

> Cat, your posts have been a breath of fresh air on

> this toxic thread. EDF needs more of you... less

> of this filth.

If they seriously wanted to hear what leavers have

to say;

They don't. They want to tell anyone willing to listen that they are wrong.

[Sephiroth]

Believe me - we want to hear any good reason for this. Ever reply from a leaver is there for all (and history) to see

But facts remain facts. And the cost far outweighs any benefits

And no other country feels the way England does

It?s possible England have this right, and everyone else from Ireland to Germany via Poland has it wrong

But how likely is that? Seriously?

[Sephiroth]

Big thanks to ianr who contacted me to point out my post on Norton Motorcycles contained duplicate links rather than the second one being the story of their collapse. Now rectified. (Even if the evidence points to no one caring in first place. Apart from Ian ;-). )

[FreyaMikaelson]

Grove boy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Grove boy Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > See, you're still frothing, So much harm? you

> > > sound like you've been brainwashed.

> >

> >

> > That's because they are brainwashed.

> >

> > If they seriously wanted to hear what leavers

> have

> > to say; what they think and want, they would

> have

> > turned up to Q&A events, held by

> > leavers/conservatives. Turning Point UK for

> > example, anyone? Didn't think so. Would have

> loved

> > to see those smug expressions wiped off of your

> > faces in a real debate... y'know, instead of

> > attacking DulwichFox? I mean... low blow.

> >

> > Cat, your posts have been a breath of fresh air

> on

> > this toxic thread. EDF needs more of you...

> less

> > of this filth.

>

>

> If they seriously wanted to hear what leavers

> have

> to say;

>

> They don't. They want to tell anyone willing to

> listen that they are wrong.

Exactly.

They're not even smart enough to realise that this; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-51341735 is their fault. If you're going to brand everyone who votes to leave the EU a racist, you're going to actually get real racists thinking they've found their tribe.

EU = / = Europe

People who voted to leave do not hate Europeans.

[Sephiroth]

I?m beginning to think Freya is a satirical account at this point

Because to believe a real person could write that and believe it beggars belief

[FreyaMikaelson]

This shows how unwilling you are to listen to anyone other than the deulsions of the left.

Why can't you elaborate? What is it you don't understand?

[Sephiroth]

You can accuse me of many things. Lack of elaboration isn?t one of them

But I?ve listed many points today - as part of my elaboration exercise

Perhaps address them? I try and address anything leavers post

But your most recent post says it is remainers fault that racists post racist things without any evidence to back it up other than ? we aren?t even smart enough to realise?

That makes zero sense

[citylover]

Just a quick note Sepiroth- I can't be knee deep in Facebook because I've never used it. I have however been surrounded by obsessive Remainers for the last decade, that is the London experience unfortunately. Too many highly educated people who think their education fills the void where ignorance lies.

[Sephiroth]

I believe you citylover

So where do you get notions of ?one world government? from?

[FreyaMikaelson]

If you're going to brand everyone who votes to leave the EU a racist, you're going to actually get real racists thinking they've found their tribe.

Either you're being deliberately difficult or you're really not smart enough to comprehend this. That's unfortunate.

[diable rouge]

Freya continuously labels Remainers as left/leftists etc. Obviously hasn't heard that there are plenty on the left (Lexiters) and the hard left like the Communist Party who all firmly support Brexit, believing it will enable them to deliver their Utopian socialist ideal...

[ianr]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> Big thanks to ianr who contacted me to point out

> my post on Norton Motorcycles contained duplicate

> links rather than the second one being the story

> of their collapse. Now rectified. (Even if the

> evidence points to no one caring in first place.

> Apart from Ian ;-). )

Who just doesn't care to take part in the discussion here.

To fill in gaps, the post referred to, on the preceding page, is https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,2091518,2093816#msg-2093816.

The first, Sky, link quoted Norton's chief executive in March 2019: "All day long we would have preferred to remain but now we've looked and reviewed our business model in the light of Brexit. ... We have the potential to be bigger, better and stronger, to go across a wider range of export territories than we would ever have looked at if we had stayed Remain."

The corrected, Guardian, link is about the firm now going into administration: "The 122-year-old brand ... had fallen victim to an assortment of overwhelming forces ranging from Brexit, a punchy HMRC pursuing the firm for ?300,000 in unpaid taxes, and tough international competition that made it impossible for Norton?s traditional bespoke approach to succeed."

I suspect we'll have to wait some time, though, for substantial evidence of harms done by Brexit in itself.

Edited to remove the otiose 'Officially' from the subject line.

[diable rouge]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

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> If you're going to brand everyone who votes to

> leave the EU a racist, you're going to actually

> get real racists thinking they've found their

> tribe.

Everyone who voted Leave isn't a racist, but I'd bet my mortgage that most of the racists voted Leave. If the racists feel at home with Brexit you need to ask yourself why...

[Sephiroth]

Ian: I would argue the combination of hubris, plucky Brit mentality, classic bad management but blaming external factors are all bound up with Brexit

Freya: you can repeat nonsense all you like. No one is saying all leavers are racists. No one. But racists who want foreigners out have latched on to Brexit as a means to and end. Can?t really blame remainers for that. You never see racists post letters saying ?this is England. We want English spoken here but leaving the eu isn?t the correct time or method for this. Let?s stay in a one world government eu project and kick em out that way?

I?d say you were in denial - if I thought you were real. Which you might be. Either way. Bad look

[dbboy]

It's a bit rich saying that if you speak in your own language in those flat's,you should go back to where you came from, because and this is the important thing, whoever wrote that poster needs to go back to school and do their English Language GCSE, which they clearly failed first time or never took.

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

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> Grove boy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Grove boy Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > See, you're still frothing, So much harm?

> you

> > > > sound like you've been brainwashed.

> > >

> > >

> > > That's because they are brainwashed.

> > >

> > > If they seriously wanted to hear what leavers

> > have

> > > to say; what they think and want, they would

> > have

> > > turned up to Q&A events, held by

> > > leavers/conservatives. Turning Point UK for

> > > example, anyone? Didn't think so. Would have

> > loved

> > > to see those smug expressions wiped off of

> your

> > > faces in a real debate... y'know, instead of

> > > attacking DulwichFox? I mean... low blow.

> > >

> > > Cat, your posts have been a breath of fresh

> air

> > on

> > > this toxic thread. EDF needs more of you...

> > less

> > > of this filth.

> >

> >

> > If they seriously wanted to hear what leavers

> > have

> > to say;

> >

> > They don't. They want to tell anyone willing to

> > listen that they are wrong.

>

>

>

>

> Exactly.

>

> They're not even smart enough to realise that

> this;

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-5134

> 1735 is their fault. If you're going to brand

> everyone who votes to leave the EU a racist,

> you're going to actually get real racists thinking

> they've found their tribe.

>

> EU = / = Europe

>

> People who voted to leave do not hate Europeans.

[pk]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

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> Grove boy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Grove boy Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> They're not even smart enough to realise that

> this;

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-5134

> 1735 is their fault. If you're going to brand

> everyone who votes to leave the EU a racist,

> you're going to actually get real racists thinking

> they've found their tribe.

>

Is it remainders fault that you talk so much BS too?

And that you push inaccurate prejudiced stereotypes?

[Grove boy]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/24/the-europe-union-has-bigger-problems-to-deal-with-than-brexit

[Sephiroth]

Larry Elliott has been a Lexiter for years and years -

that makes him as much of a fantastist as the right wing Leavers

If you were him, what good comes from brexit if it's controlled by a right wing government for years and years to come?

Similar applies in reverse - if you want to implement right wing policy, you have little business allying yourself with someone like Elliot

It's still all British/English exceptionalism

Other countries are able to take a reading of the pros and cons of the EU, as well as other shifts in global power as well - none of them are reaching the same conclusion ans left or right wing british leavers

Why does anyone think that is?

[Grove boy]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you're going to brand everyone who votes to

> > leave the EU a racist, you're going to actually

> > get real racists thinking they've found their

> > tribe.

>

> Everyone who voted Leave isn't a racist, but I'd

> bet my mortgage that most of the racists voted

> Leave. If the racists feel at home with Brexit you

> need to ask yourself why...

I know of at least two rabid remainers who are racist. One a cab driver from a local office, his partner is Danish, he is all for white europeans coming here but not black or asians (his words)because he believe's that they will eventually take over.

The second, another rabid remainer and self proclaimed liberal. He refuses to let his daughter date black boys. He told me several times that anyone who voted leave is indeed a racist.Irony isn't his strongest trait!