Night Nanny - good idea?

[RhubarbGarden]

We got in a night nanny when our son was about 5 weeks old because I was starting to unravel and the sleep deprivation and hours and hours of crying (he has colic) every evening had me teetering on the verge of PND. She was worth her weight in gold; she came once a week for three weeks and just knowing I would get a good night's sleep in x number of days was enough to get me through. She was here 9pm till 7am; did his bottle feed at 10pm, brought him to me for a breast feed at 3am and 7am. She did all the burping and settling and as a result I wasn't constantly giving him feeds every time he woke up just to get him back to sleep as quickly as possible - she had the patience, stamina and experience to get him back to sleep without feeds when he didn't actually need them. I'm convinced that he learnt from this that he didn't actually need to feed every hour or so, because things did start to improve. Or maybe he just got older. After the third week we decided we didn't need her any more as although he was still waking up around 3am and 5am for a feed, he was settling straight away afterwards without any crying, and I could handle that.

Tonight, for the first time, he's gone to sleep without a murmur at 7pm. He's ten weeks. Last night he made it through to 4.30am before waking. Finally I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

What else has helped? Colief for his colic made him cry less and settle more easily. Adopting a Gina Ford routine (I know, I know, deeply unfashionable but it works) helped him stop getting too overtired to sleep at 7pm. I also attended a sleep seminar organised through this forum and got some new tricks to try and a mental boost from that.

It does get better. It's just so grindingly hard when you are in the thick of it.

[KateW]

Great post RhubarbGarden and it's fab that you're getting more sleep but please, PLEASE stop reinforcing the over-used message on this forum that a Gina Ford routine is somehow a bad thing! A good routine is not rocket science, it's just about trying to make sure your LO doesn't get over-tired so they sleep well and feed well.

Ellie78, it will get easier and you will get some sleep, but in the meantime, I'd say do whatever it takes to get your LO to sleep and if a night nanny is the answer, go for it. Best of luck x

[RhubarbGarden]

KateW you are absolutely right - I have only praise for Gina Ford it has been a lifesaver for me. But there are a lot of bullies around who attack anyone who dares to suggest it and that is why I mentioned it with caution.

[Ellie78]

Thanks everyone for your advice and thanks for teh PMs. I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to post back but I've not been able to get to a keyboard in teh interim.

We're actually in the process of chatting to a few night nannies so we can make more of an informed decision, based on their processes. I have to say I'm reluctant - it makes me feel like a complete failure to be honest. My son is a challenging baby (none in his antenatal class are like him) but I'm sure people cope with worse, and by themselves too. But, anyway, I'm not coping so we have to sort that somehow.

We have tried shushing, swaddling, rocking etc, 'night time', (and thanks for the offer of the Amby alieh - but I think it would confuse him too much in the long run?) but he HATES swaddling with a vengeance and really only responds to the movement of the buggy. My boyfriend is pounding the pavements as we speak (after my unsuccessful attempt to get him to sleep an hour ago the same way - woke up as soon as buggy stopped). [People are STILL telling me to sleep whenn the baby sleeps - HAVE YOU NOT LISTENED!!!!] Unfortunately, today he DOES actually need more milk - I think he's dehydrated, but he drained me dry this afternoon so I'm kind of hoping this break gives me a chance to replenish so I can feed him when he gets back. It makes me sad to think that I can't comfort him, or supply his needs, and I don't want to even start thinking about how uncomfortable he must be. But I need to get over that and do whatever I can I guess. I will happily join the queue of parents who feel completely inadequate in the face of a screaming infant: where is that please?

And his rageful cries are still going right through me and shaking my very core. I thought I'd get immune or used to them somehow. Not at all.

[Mum2be]

I'm so sorry your not having a good time , just to let you no my boy 3months doesn't like cuddles or swaddling either he just likes to be laid down , is your baby in a Moses basket ? Riley didn't like that either so we put him in his cot after a few weeks and now tonight the first night in his own room , bit young I no but I think he is ready .

Things will get easer , I hope you have luck with the night nanny I'd be happy to come over in the day for a few hours and keep him busy while you have a rest ? I'm a nanny with child

Hollie x

[Adam]

Co- sleeping has been our only way to cope with number 2, who is still up several times a night at 9 months. In my views the SIDS risk is overstated, if you follow the advice above - sheets not duvet, pillows out of the way etc. Do try it.

Totally sympathise with how you feel. Our Baby number 1 would only sleep during the day when on the move, though number 2 has needed more reassurance than her at night. They are all different and go through better/ worse stages, as people have said above - it's nothing you're doing wrong. Personally I would try a local doula or maternity nurse for a few days, if only to give you the reassurance that there's nothing else you could be trying and that it will pass!

Good luck.

[Fuschia]

Ellie, he does sound as if something is going on... Don't blame yourself

My first baby was very similar ... Not sure we ever cracked it but muddled through with mr f taking him out for long walks Though eventually we tried cosleeping and I managed to get enough sleep

You must try are to look after yourself - ESP in this heat

Drink gallons

Eat regularly

Have a shower in the morning, and prob again in the evening, or a coolish bath

Don't worry if you feel like you have no milk left, it's when he feeds and you feel empty that your body gets the message to up production (growth spurt)

How is his weight gain? Is his poo yellow?

Why do you think he's dehydrated? That's cause for concern

[Pickle]

Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time.

Don't be worried about confusing him regarding using a hammock - we borrowed Alieh's hammock for our baby (now 6 months) and it was a godsend in the first few months in the evenings when she was hard to settle, the position and motion really seemed to help. She then happily made the transition to a Moses basket and now cot with no problems.

Also I echo what others have said about co-sleeping. I had never done it prior to having #3 and never thought I would, but for the first 8 weeks or so it was the best way of ensuring sleep for all of us.

[GCOakley]

My sis got given a video from the midwife - 5 ways to comfort a crying baby by Dr Karp. In a moment of stress with her daughter and all at our wits end, we put it on and followed the steps and it weirdly just worked. I think they were

swaddle - tho you could leave it out if he doesn't like it

side position - i.e. hold him lying on his side not upright - apparently more like the womb

swing - strong rocking motion

shush - saying this very loudly in his ear

s...? - not sure what this was, but basically hold a hairdryer near his ear. apparently is like noise in womb. was amazing. she just kind of turned off and went to sleep.

after that, we used to go straight just to the hairdryer. just for the first couple of weeks, obviously she weaned off it!

good luck!

[midivydale]

Hey ellie,

Again, i feel your pain, sounds very similar to my early weeks with ds. I am by no means a medical expert so please take my comments in the manner they are intended but could it be reflux and/or cmpi?

Reflux babies are often described as difficult, clingy, impossible to settle etc.

Is baby worse after feeds? Hate being lying down flat? Arch his back? Gulps feeds?

Again, i dont want to go on and on about reflux if it isnt productive to you.

I too posted a few months ago about the "sleep when baby sleeps" advice, it made me want to scream. Do what you need to do to get through, it WILL get better. Let me know if you want to meet and share your frustrations to someone who has been there.

[shaunag]

Hi Ellie

You need to stop beating yourself up.you are doing a brilliant job. None of us are trained on how to be a mum before we are thrown in at the deep end, and every baby is different. You are exhausted and a bit hormonal and want the absolute best for yor baby as any mum does. What you need to realise is that you are already doing the absolute best for your baby. Lo needs their mummy to be healthy and happy too-it all trickles back to them one way or another. I found it really hard in the beginning.i felt like I couldn't cope all the time, and it didn't help that lots of the other mums from my antenatal groups seemed to be breezing through. The truth is though that noone breezes through.being a new mum is really damn hard! Of course you love yor baby more than anything but that doesn't change how much you have to give of yourself and the toll it takes. My baby is 18 months now. She was a very challenging baby with reflux and undiagnosed dairy allergy,but the really hard days are a dim and distant memory now. You will get through this. Your baby will be fine. You are doing your best,and baby is so lucky to have been born to you-there are so many babies that don't have the unbelievable care aGnd love that you are obviously providing to your child. I think if I could impart any advice from being there it would be to relax, and try not to put yourself under so much pressure.try to imagine having a conversation with your grown up baby- they would not be happy to hear you describe the hard work you have done as being anything less than that of the best mum in the world! You will get through this.its hard to be objective when you are knackered, but time will pass and baby will grow bigger and stronger and the memory of this tough time will fade. It is always ok to ask for a helping hand if you need it, no matter what it is you need help with. You are more of a mother to ask and get help when you need than to battle on and make yourself ill from battling on when you are not coping. I went to a specialist for the problem with my baby and it got sorted. Night nannies are the baby sleep specialists-there is nothing failure like about drafting in an expert and if you are in a position to be able to afford it why not give it a go? Worst case scenario it will be no use,best case it will help you get some much needed rest.

Would be happy to meet up for a chat or to give you a hand on weekend if you don't have anyone to help out so that you can get some rest.im not a nanny, just another mum that recognises another mum having a hard time. Best of luck, and please realise every mum feels incompetent occasionally, even the ones that seem born mothers!

Xx

[alieh]

The suggestion that annoyed me as much as "sleep when the baby sleeps" (ummm....he doesn't...that's the problem) is "do you have a sling".....

BUT

Do you have a sling?? I have 4 different ones that you would be welcome to try out. All have been essential at one point or another. Son #2 would not sleep unless snuggled in a sling. He liked my Coorie Fleece pouch in the cradled position and hated being upright. Son #1 loved the wrap sling and wanted to be upright.

Finally, you mentioned that he doesn't have symptoms of reflux but just to make sure that you know about silent reflux (i.e. he doesn't spit up but has burning pain you can't see). If he prefers to fall asleep in upright position (inclined in buggy, upright on your chest, in car seat) that is a sign.

It is so overwhelming with all of the information out there - just know that you aren't doing anything wrong and this is no indication of what your son will be like as he gets bigger. It is a detective effort at first to learn about each baby - what they like, how to get them to sleep, if they have any issues with pain/discomfort - and all you can do is try different things until you strike on ones that work.

If a night nanny helps get you through a few days, then don't think twice. Just do it. You are not a failure.

[Fuschia]

It can't be underestimated, the difficulty of early pArenthood without our own family close by

Humans are social animals and we have evolved to live in groups precisely to that this sort of task can be shared amongst 'the tribe' with older women, in particular, available to care for the new mother and baby

To try to manage alone is not what we are designed for

It's not easy

[alieh]

So true Fuschia! I thought that it would be enough to have my parents come and visit from overseas for the first few weeks but actually A. they were somewhat useless with newborn babies having not had to deal with one for over 30 years and B. I needed help for much longer than a few weeks as it was ongoing advice, support, etc. that was invaluable as each different stage presented its own challenges.

So thank goodness for the Forum and the network of amazing Mums (and Dads!) I've met in East Dulwich.

[Fuschia]

Most of us don't have much experience of babies at all till we have our own, even

I must say I found my first child minder was incredibly skilled at baby soothing etc

I still rely on some work mates (all grandmothers, even great grandmothers) for advice at times

[Jo'sEnglish]

Just wanted to echo what everyone else has said.

I remember sitting rocking my newborn son and wondering why no one had told me it was going to be so hard! They had of course, you just don't know what it means at that stage.

I just think you need to do whatever it takes to get through. Take whatever help you can get, listen to all the advice and ignore what you don't like, don't worry about what other babies are doing (don't compare!), don't worry about creating bad habits (you can worry about that later), trust your instincts and do what you think is right.

I think you sound like you are really doing your best, hiring a night nanny is in no way a failure, if you think it will help than go for it. If you don't have heaps of experienced relatives and friends around to help then it sounds sensible, and it is a good thing that you are exploring help rather than trying to struggle on and getting more and more run down.

ETA - Oh, and I meant to say, remember to look after yourself, drink lots, eat well (takeaways if you need to) and take some time to have a break, have a shower, just lie down for 10mins while someone cuddles the baby. Don't try to do too much.

[trinity]

Ellie - so sorry you are having such a difficult time. My little one (number 4 so I thought I knew everything I needed to know about babies - but I was wrong) would not sleep at all during the day. Not ever, not at all except when being walked in a buggy. As soon as it stopped she woke up so I was exhausted. The solution that worked for us was a baby swing - I bought it when she was 8 weeks old and that was the first day of her life that she slept at home during the day. She slept for 4 hours solid the first time I put her in it. Once she was getting regular sleep during the day her night time sleeping improved also. She didn't have reflux or a medical issue but just needed the right conditions to send her to sleep.

Some babies need movement to send them so sleep - some need constant movement - perhaps your baby is one of those.

[Saffron]

Pickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time.

>

> Don't be worried about confusing him regarding

> using a hammock - we borrowed Alieh's hammock for

> our baby (now 6 months) and it was a godsend in

> the first few months in the evenings when she was

> hard to settle, the position and motion really

> seemed to help. She then happily made the

> transition to a Moses basket and now cot with no

> problems.

>

Yes, I totally agree. The hammock doesn't seem to confuse babies, perhaps b/c eventually they naturally outgrow that need for movement while falling asleep/sleeping.

My daughter didn't really like swaddling, but she did like the Amby hammock. You really lose nothing by trying it a few times.

[Saffron]

Can you rule out any other health problems in yourself? It's worth asking your GP for a general blood screening. For example if your iron is low or your white cells are high, this can make you extra tired, which in turn makes it much harder to care for a newborn.

Rule out postpartum depression too if you can. Here's an online quiz: http://pediatrics.about.com/library/quiz/blquiz_ppd_scng.htm . Many women wrongly think that PPD is only made up of cognitive symptoms, but it's possible to have mainly physical symptoms. PPD can make dealing with a difficult baby all the more exhausting. The usual treatment is sertraline, which is fine for breastfeeding.

I had a "high-need", non-sleeping baby. Along with an undiagnosed blood disorder and PPD, I felt totally floored. Enlist all the help you can, and don't be afraid to push for things that you instictively think are right for you and your baby. xx

[gillandjoe]

Does your baby nurse to sleep, Ellie?

For the first three months I put 3 pillows behind me and then nursed my baby to sleep and then we both slept in that position - so he was quite upright, which is good if a baby has reflux or wind.

He naturally transitioned to wanting to sleep next to me on his side and back at about 3 months.

Also, co-sleeping at first is easier if daddy sleeps in a spare bed and lets you and the baby have all the room for nursing and repositioning. Not very romantic but definitely helped everyone get more sleep. I found my partner was ready to take over early in the morning if he'd had a few undisturbed hours sleep on his own.

I hate to say it, but I think if you can find a way to make it through without a night nanny you will be so proud of yourself and you will look back on the first weeks as this precious, private time as a family where you really tested your strength. Saying that, my exhaustion pushed me to mild PND and it was really really hard for a while but I am so proud of myself, my partner and my amazing baby! Parenthood is mental!

[fapl]

Take up alieh's offer and try the amby hammock. Your baby sounds exactly like my oldest son and the hammock, while not a cure, made a massive difference. The baby is cocooned and it is on a spring so when they move they are bounced around.

My gut instinct goes against the advice of putting babies to sleep on their backs. I think there are a lot of babies that don't like it. There is some research, though not scientifically certified, by the late Dr Brian Palmer that one of the best ways of avoiding SIDS is by breastfeeding your baby.

[tomo]

I also had a very challenging baby when it came to sleep - he seemed to fight it all the way. He's five and half months and we still put him down for his naps in his pram. He does sleep better at night, but that's only a very recent development. We spent hours pushing him round the garden with him in his pram desperately trying to get him to sleep. At 4 weeks he was still cluster feeding and I was lucky if I got a stretch of 2 hours from him. It does take time to get your supply established. My doctor also thought he had reflux, but I'm pretty convinced he didn't, just a pukey baby who didn't sleep well. He also hated the sling to begin with, but loves it now. We also co slept, which meant I could feed lying down. Husband went into the spare room so he could take over at 5am, made no sense that both of us be sleep deprived. He was of more use to me that way.

One thing that did help to settle my baby without having to resort to rocking in the buggy is letting him suck on my little finger (nail bed on the base of his tongue) He was (still is) a very sucky baby- so this helped to soothe him when he was too tired to feed but still needed something to help him get to sleep. He wouldn't take a dummy, so I became one instead!

I feel your pain. It's hard work, but you are doing an amazing job and it will get better. Take what help is offered- my mum used to bring up meals so we didn't need to cook.

How was the birth? It could be that he's still got some residual discomfort from the labour? You could try cranial osteopathy- some people swear by it.

[KatsuQueen]

Ellie, just to add a different perspective to gillandjoe's post, specifically her last paragraph:

"I hate to say it, but I think if you can find a way to make it through without a night nanny you will be so proud of yourself and you will look back on the first weeks as this precious, private time as a family where you really tested your strength. Saying that, my exhaustion pushed me to mild PND and it was really really hard for a while but I am so proud of myself, my partner and my amazing baby!"

My husband and I also did it all "on our own" without any real help; although our sleep problems were nowhere as difficult as yours. Looking back, I think we were stupid and tortured ourselves for no good reason. At the time, we wanted it to be "our journey". Second time round, we asked for help, lots of help from friends and family. Shamelessly. We didn't even care how incovenient it was for them, my reasoning was - well, they can always say no.

So if you think you need a night nanny, get one. I know the money issue is hard, and I hope you can find a way if you need to. Just imagine if you were having a conversation with YOUR daughter in the future, and she was going through what you are going through now - what would you say?

Best of luck and if you need some company/moral support to get you through the long long days, please PM me! Maybe we can meet up.

Edited to say - no offence meant to gillandjoe, just adding different viewpoint.

[jollybaby]

Ellie - I agree with Katsu, there is no shame whatsoever in getting in help whether it is from your family, friends or outside. I too had a pretty horrid start it motherhood. I had a hideous 3 day labour ending in EMCS and thenPND. By week 2 I thought I was dying. Baby JB wasn't a particularly tricky baby either (which made me feel worse). As others have said it really helped to have my partner take over between 7pm and midnight. Getting 3-4 hours sleep in a block enabled me to function.

Between 4 -8 weeks I also had help from a doula (Nataliedoula on here). She came for 3 hours on Tues and Thurs mornings and it was great being able to go for a bath, have a nap or just have someone to talk to. I'd strongly recommend this option.

As/if and when I have another baby I will definitely have more help in place for the postnatal period. No question.

I hope last night was a bit better for you. Please make the most of all the offers of help on here. I don't live in East Dulwich anymore but if I did I would have been very happy to come round, make you a cup of tea and push a buggy back and forth!

[Ellie78]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the supportive messages and posts. EDF-ites, you are all amazing.

Saffron - thanks for the pointers to PND. It's a difficult one - I do have massive emotional outbursts; I sobbed uncontrollably at about 10pm last night, but I had been trying to get him to sleep for the previous 5 hours, with all my attempts failing miserably (he had only slept 2 hours since 5 am and I was desperately trying to avoid overtiredness). So I kind of think that these patches are Justified Misery and a natural response rather than anything else, as I still manage to enjoy our time together during the day (when he's not raging). And I think I respond so emotionally to everything because I'm so tired due to his lack of sleeping (I'd be in pieces with the lack of a night's sleep at the best of times). But it's difficult to know where the line is drawn. My boyfriend was certainly worried about me last night (HE hadn't been around most of the evening!). Otherwise, I'm not over hyper (or dozy), nothing unusual is going on in terms of my ability to eat, and (most importantly) I haven't lost interest in, or love for, the most important person in this scenario: my son. Though I have to admit that, at times, I resent the situation. Any advice happily received on this issue - I certainly don't want to miss diagnosing anything like that.

Thanks again everyone.