Application for extended late licence at the Great Exhibition

[giggirl]

TGE was at odds to point out on Wednesday that it wants to serve our community and in the next breath said that the 2.30am licence was a standard application it made for all of its premises. I'm confused. How is a "one size fits all" licence application serving this community?

On Wednesday I made the mistake of arranging to meet a friend at the GE for a drink. It was pub quiz night. Turns out that not only does the pub quiz alienate people outside the premises; it's also a pain for those inside who just want a drink and a chat. The volume is way excessive. There's no need - just turn it down a bit.

James Barber is doing a great job and it's not a crime to have an opinion. He really can't win; if he didn't have an opinion he'd be told to get off the fence.

[georgia]

'sort their current anit-social behaviour out'

Seems a bit OTT. I live near TGE and to be honest I haven't really been bothered by any noise.

[pipsky2008]

A message to me says 'TGE have been clever and asked for all complaints to be made to the pub management, thus avoiding formal recording of such complaints'.

[pipsky2008]

giggirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TGE was at odds to point out on Wednesday that it

> wants to serve our community and in the next

> breath said that the 2.30am licence was a standard

> application it made for all of its premises. I'm

> confused. How is a "one size fits all" licence

> application serving this community?

>

> On Wednesday I made the mistake of arranging to

> meet a friend at the GE for a drink. It was pub

> quiz night. Turns out that not only does the pub

> quiz alienate people outside the premises; it's

> also a pain for those inside who just want a drink

> and a chat. The volume is way excessive. There's

> no need - just turn it down a bit.

>

> James Barber is doing a great job and it's not a

> crime to have an opinion. He really can't win; if

> he didn't have an opinion he'd be told to get off

> the fence.

The alchohol industry are playing a very schizophrenic game, on the one hand, they are a hard nosed business that exist to make a profit out of you and on the other a friendly uncle who gives you somewhere to go and something to do in the evening....no wonder residents and the management are confused

[Alan Medic]

Were the patrons sitting outside last night particularly noisy or am I just getting old?

[KidKruger]

They were pissed and therefore noisy.

My kids asked me to go stop the 'angry scary men' shouting because they could not sleep.

It was so hot I had to have their windows open.

[KalamityKel]

I don't think it was just there the noise fell... LL seemed to be rather active way in to the early hours...

[BigED]

It was certainly very noisy at TGE around 9 last night when I came back. I came inside, didn't bother opening the windows, put the fan on and tried not to melt too quickly. The combination of long warm days, ready availability of alcohol and a supply of patrons who aren't worrying about work in the morning does make for some very loud people the longer that progresses. Just think what it might be like if the pub is open to 2.00 am (plus another 30 minutes drinking up time, of course).

Once the current application is out of the way, press for a licensing review and requirements to:

- close all outside spaces at 10pm (the front and side terraces and the courtyard (aka the gin yard)

- close by midnight on Fridays and Saturdays (ok, plus another 30 mins drinking time)

- close by 11pm on other nights (plus 30 mins)

- no treating of Sunday before a bank holiday as having the same licensing hours as a Friday or Saturday

- no 36-hour opening over new year's eve/new year's day (personally I'd be sympathetic to a 1 am licence for new year's eve)

- security staff required on the same basis as at the Actress

- improved sound limiting - either through restricted opening times and restricted hours for activities, improved management of the building structures (shut the windows and doors, use lobby doors to all outside spaces, use ceiling fans or AC units to keep inside temperature at am acceptable level), sound limiting devices to limit amplified noise, acoustic blinds (or equivalent) to be fitted to windows, possibly also double glazing - or some combination of all of the above

I'd just like the Great Exhibition to be a good neighbour - it's already a good local pub but you can sense all the goodwill seeping away.

[DJKillaQueen]

It's unrealistic to expect a pub to be completely noise free, which is why licensing is always a compromise.

[Alan Medic]

Who said it should/could be? Last night was OTT.

[DulwichFox]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's unrealistic to expect a pub to be completely

> noise free, which is why licensing is always a

> compromise.

Nonesence..

The Old Crystal Palace Tavern (CPT) did not cause much noise nuscience.

The Old Uplands Tavern did not cause much noise nuscience.

The Castle does not cause much noise nuscience.

The Palmerston does not cause much noise nuscience.

The Magnolia does not cause much noise nuscience.

The Grove does not cause much noise nuscience.

It can be done.

Fox.

[fredricketts]

pipsky2008

A message to me says 'TGE have been clever and asked for all complaints to be made to the pub management, thus avoiding formal recording of such complaints'.

Adventure bar did exactly the same,

Its Not Mr Barber you have to watch out for, it?s the people sitting on the committee.

The Adventure bar had several objections but the committee at Tooley Street took no notice of the whatsoever. It?s a very good idea to have the meeting local, as more people will turn up, as I think its part of the Councils strategy to put it where most people cannot be bothered to travel to.

Government want to kerb binge drinking, yet they have changed the licensing laws to encourage it.

[pipsky2008]

I think it a credit to those that came to the meeting how they put themselves over considering the force of emotion involved and I certainly felt it in the room.

I think for many who experience this kind of protracted noise nuisance and consequent anxiety, depression and a dozen other emotional states, it is all too easy to go under and begin to accept that,'oh well, that's just the way things are'.

It takes a great resolve and a lot of energy to pursue a matter like this through due process, all the smoke and mirrors of licensing law, at what point a landlord is responsible for the behaviour of the customer and at what point they aren't.

Those affected are at least fortunate in that there are a number of you and so don't need to suffer this alone where it would be easy to be dismissed as a crank.

[rch]

Because of the way licensing legislation is set (and I agree that it needs to change, but it's taking way too long) it's not enough for residents simply to object - there needs to be statistical data to support the objections for committee members to assess.

In other words, it's not enough for a resident to say that they have experienced noise and nuisance over time, you need to log complaints so that a dossier of evidence can be built up - it's these statistics that give the committee the grounds to refuse an application.

To complain about noise generated from the premises either phone 020 7525 2000 (or, more directly, 020 7525 5777) to officially log a complaint to the noise team and ask for a reference number. The more people who complain, the better.

Premises can't technically be held responsible for noise outside of their control, so for disturbances in the street that can be considered to be disorder (or anti-social behaviour), phone the police number on 101 and ask for the CAD or a CHS reference number.

I can't stress how useful the 101 number is, some of the operators are amazingly sympathetic, and complaints/intel are logged on the central police computer which is then useful for subsequent response police attendance.

Everything from police resources to grounds for refusal is driven by statistics these days. If there is a log of dozens of complaints over a period of time that is presented with the licensing application report, this will give residents' objections far greater weight. Furthermore, if 101 get several calls from the same location, they will send a car around if one is available, then you will have even more data presented from a police perspective.

By all means, liaise with the manager of the premises, but always log complaints.

East Dulwich traditionally has the lowest ward CAD statistics in Southwark, but that's because most of us are too polite to complain.

[LondonMix]

Very helpful post!

[Otta]

On Saturday my wife and I went for a rare meal together on Lordship Lane, and afterwards we walked to the GE for a quick drink before picking the kids up.

Upon arrival we heard the noise, and decided to forget it. Went to get the kids from my parent's half way down Whateley Road, and could still hear it loud and clear. I was shocked, the CPT used to get busy on summer nights with people sat outside, but never noisy like that.

Bloody rugger bugger types who can't handle their drink.

[StraferJack]

Everywhere I went this weekend was loud - even staying at home, noise from outside was way louder than normal. Down to the weather tho... noise just travels much farther and crisper in these conditions

[Otta]

I dunno man, we were right outside the place about to go in, and it was bloody loud.

[StraferJack]

No, I do believe you - was just adding something I noticed everywhere this weekend

Any pub, anywhere on a sunny weekend evening is usually far too loud for me these days to be fair

Bit diasspointed that the pub haven't made any representation on here - they were certainly active when they were setting the place up

[Chillaxed]

Exactly Otta, I heard the noise too and through my powers of super-hearing deduced it was rugger buggers who can't handle their drink. You should join my super-powers club.

Was noisier in general I reckon. Warm weather makes people thirsty makes people louder. And happier and louder. And a bit hot and bothered and louder.

[DJKillaQueen]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Everywhere I went this weekend was loud - even

> staying at home, noise from outside was way louder

> than normal. Down to the weather tho... noise just

> travels much farther and crisper in these

> conditions

The most sensible post so far regarding this weekend.

I have seen it from both sides.....justified complaints regarding noise and also similarly protracted camplaints by those who think any noise whatsoever is unacceptable (unreasonable). This is also what licensing committees have to decipher.

In my experience, licenising committees at Southwark are most of the time fair and reasonable in their assessments. As I said earlier on this thread, I can not see the committee extending hours within a residential area, but their view would be different regarding a retail area.

Similarly TENs that are issued for one off events are granted with the same logic (a TEN can only be opposed by the Police and Environmental Office btw).

The flip side of the coin is that a business may be depending on an aspect of licenisng to stay in business. And it's all of those factors together, from all sides that a committee will weigh up and balance. Hence licensing never being able to make all of the people happy all of the time.

[roblay]

Fox, those pubs are quieter because (with the exception of the Palmerston, which is a restaurant in all but name) comparatively few people go to them. TGE is busy because it is doing what it does quite well and people want to go there. That's not to say I don't empathise with local residents on the high level of noise - I'm sure I would find it annoying too. But I guess that's why I choose not to live too close to a pub.

[StraferJack]

also, even tho I like it, the Castle has often been reported for disturbances outside. Quite a few threads talked about it in the past

[DulwichFox]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> also, even tho I like it, the Castle has often

> been reported for disturbances outside. Quite a

> few threads talked about it in the past

In the Past.. maybe. but they have tidied up their act..

Things at the GBE are bad and about to get worse.

Fox.

[pipsky2008]

rch Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Because of the way licensing legislation is set

> (and I agree that it needs to change, but it's

> taking way too long) it's not enough for residents

> simply to object - there needs to be statistical

> data to support the objections for committee

> members to assess.

>

> In other words, it's not enough for a resident to

> say that they have experienced noise and nuisance

> over time, you need to log complaints so that a

> dossier of evidence can be built up - it's these

> statistics that give the committee the grounds to

> refuse an application.

>

> To complain about noise generated from the

> premises either phone 020 7525 2000 (or, more

> directly, 020 7525 5777) to officially log a

> complaint to the noise team and ask for a

> reference number. The more people who complain,

> the better.

>

> Premises can't technically be held responsible for

> noise outside of their control, so for

> disturbances in the street that can be considered

> to be disorder (or anti-social behaviour), phone

> the police number on 101 and ask for the CAD or a

> CHS reference number.

>

> I can't stress how useful the 101 number is, some

> of the operators are amazingly sympathetic, and

> complaints/intel are logged on the central police

> computer which is then useful for subsequent

> response police attendance.

>

> Everything from police resources to grounds for

> refusal is driven by statistics these days. If

> there is a log of dozens of complaints over a

> period of time that is presented with the

> licensing application report, this will give

> residents' objections far greater weight.

> Furthermore, if 101 get several calls from the

> same location, they will send a car around if one

> is available, then you will have even more data

> presented from a police perspective.

>

> By all means, liaise with the manager of the

> premises, but always log complaints.

>

> East Dulwich traditionally has the lowest ward CAD

> statistics in Southwark, but that's because most

> of us are too polite to complain.

It is worth noting that when the noise team come to make their assessment from the interior of your home, they have a different reference number, 6 digits, from the one you can get from the person who answers the phone when you ring in on 020 7525 5777, which has 10 digits and begins with 800. You must ask for these numbers, they are not volunteered.