Why are teen pregnancies so high?

[gerry]

Maxi, thank you for giving us the facts. I think this may be something for parents to take on board, and see their responsibilities when trying to help a teen decide what to do. Brendan, our society's values need addressing somehow, or the idea of children raising children will have no boundaries, only benefits.

[mockney piers]

"fundamental human right, somewhere to call home."

Ooh, I'm really not sure about that.

The fundamentals were well put some time ago, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

A Home is surely part of the third. but the key is in pursuit. I.e work towards it and merit it. Build it, earn it, whatever. I don't think it's a fundamental right to just have one provided for you.

As a pragmatist and a believer in social nets to support the social fabric I'm all for the state providing housing to the vulnerable, but only because to deny this is to condemn the whole of society;

A political ideal it may be, but a fundamental right? not by a hundred miles.

But that might just be me nit-picking again.

[KalamityKel]

"inexperienced mothers" ??? who is ever fully experienced when it comes to motherhood? That comments hints at the assumption a young mother equals a bad one. That very clearly is plain wrong. Age doesn't come into it at all.

[david_carnell]

KalamityKel Wrote:

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> "inexperienced mothers" ??? who is ever fully

> experienced when it comes to motherhood? That

> comments hints at the assumption a young mother

> equals a bad one. That very clearly is plain

> wrong. Age doesn't come into it at all.

Yes, that was probably inflammatory and not quite what I was getting at. Sorry. What I really meant was that on top of eveything else, these girls are young and inexperienced in life. I appreciate that some teenagers are capable of both looking after themselves and mature enough to raise a family. Most, IMO, are not.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Mockney - Quote from nicked from Amnesty, but I studied the Universal Declaration in Uni and it is now considered to be universally applicaple as Customary International Law.

"Everyone, everywhere has the right to live with dignity. The means that no one should be denied their rights to education, adequate housing, food, water and sanitation, the highest attainable standard of health, and other economic, social and cultural rights.

Since the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948, the international community has recognized that all human rights are indivisible."

So yes having access to a home is a human right.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

So it is better to wait until you are in your 40's with a pile of money and dried up ovaries is it?

[KalamityKel]

And more chance of producing a child with deformities or other health problems? (sorry I didnt mean to use "produce" in a cattle market type way)

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Exactly, how good is that for the development of the child?

[david_carnell]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

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> So it is better to wait until you are in your 40's

> with a pile of money and dried up ovaries is it?

Oh come on, be fair. That's not what I said at all. There is never going to be a "perfect" time to have a child. No-one ever knows whether they are going to be a good parent but it's common sense that if you have some life experience behind you, good qualifications, a good job and a stable relationship with a partner and your family then the chances of you successfully raising a child are increased.

I'm not saying all teenage mums raise feral criminals and I have no doubt that some 40 year old millionaires are useless parents but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out who stands a better chance in life does it?

[Brendan]

The idea of ?rights? is just that MP, an idea that any given society buys into at a given time as it fits with their world view and what they do to survive. They are not some universal one size fits all set of rules on which to base morality. What is a luxury to one person today may be a right to another person tomorrow or vice versa. Values and therefore rights are as fluid as society and while agreeing to a rigid set of rules can protect people and help society function properly it can just as easily be used to exploit.

Not that I am in anyway suggesting that we shouldn?t adopt a set of basic rights as layed out in the universal declaration. I am just saying you can never declare it the be all and end all and forget about it.

Sorry this is a philosophical point rather than anything else and doesn?t have much to do with the topic.

[*Bob*]

Polarising nonsense, as usual with these kinds of topics.

Does anyone really think the best time to have children is either:

a) when you're 16?

or

b) when you're 45?

Of course not.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

"it's common sense that if you have some life experience behind you"

Isn't that what grandparents and other family are there for?

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I just hate the asumption that teenagers doing what nature intended and procreating is always seen as something negative to be pitied and looked down on.

[gerry]

Chav, I am afraid that social workers have become the grandparents and extended family. Not all young mothers have real extended family to help them.

[KalamityKel]

Exactly. Or the fact just because these teens have not yet "lived", as David puts it, that it is a bad thing. It should be a social responsibility to support those around us rather than shunning them. :)

[*Bob*]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

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> I just hate the asumption that teenagers doing

> what nature intended and procreating is always

> seen as something negative to be pitied and looked

> down on.

Neither is it something to be celebrated. As Kalamity says, it should be a social responsibility to support, but getting preggers when you're a teenager is hardly a reason for dancing in the streets, is it?! At least in the majority of cases.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Gerry, on what facts do you base your assertions?

My daughter has a lot of friends who are her ages with kids, and they all have support from their extended family.

I think this is just a pile of crap that is rolled out by middleclass busybodies to endorse their selfish lifestyle choices and late parenting that is added on like another purchase after they already have the matching towels, bed linen and Aga.

[david_carnell]

"Isn't that what grandparents and other family are there for?"

Yes, if said mother is fortunate enough to have these. Personal experience is not something to be sniffed at either.

"I just hate the asumption that teenagers doing what nature intended and procreating is always seen as something negative to be pitied and looked down on."

Do you know why nature intended sixteen yr olds to have sex and procreate as much as possible? Because you died at 35 and infant mortality rates were through the roof. Oddly, this no longer applies. Advances in western civilisation and medicine no allow women to choose when to have children through the marvels of contraception and when they do decide, modern medicine means that their baby has a great chance of survival. I don't pity anyone who decides to have children, only those who didn't make an informed choice. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[gerry]

Chav, As you implied yourself, if a young teen is kicked out of her home, or has run away for various reasons, would she still have extended family to help her?

[mockney piers]

Access and denial of access and free provision are hardly the same thing though are they.

Plus adequate housing and somewhere to call home are potentially worlds apart, so point taken, but not accepted.

And totally with you Brendan. I don't believe there are any moral absolutes at all, but society certainly defines its moral spectrum, and wider cultures work along similar spectra.

For instance in studying Chinese history I was constantly reminded by my tutors that it's a different universe, our rules don't really apply. The Universal Declaration... as lofty and fine as it may be, really only applies to those who agree with it. It's already utterly aligned to a subjective set of values rather undermining its (well intentioned) universality.

Err...hence why the teenage pregnancies...or something.

[KalamityKel]

hehe David ur choice of words at times I think unintentionally fuels arguments

[david_carnell]

Sorry Kel if I've poured petrol on the fire, as it were. I've tried not to use words such as "pity" or "shunned" or to use derogatory language as I'm aware this obviously affects some forum members (in)directly. I certainly don't wish to offend anyone.

If you can quote me on something that's done this, I'm happy to retract/apologise/defend.

[Cassius]

Obviously a selfish middle class viewpoint here, but isn't it better for young people to have some FUN before they settle down and have children. Is it not possible that a 16 year old who can't go out and have fun with their mates may feel resentment rather than love for the reason for this?

[KalamityKel]

How much fun are the 30 & 40 somethings (who either had children young or have chosen not to have any at all) are having now? ;-)

David, you haven't offended me at all. I can just see how words can be misconstrued and interpreted differently... just be careful ;-)

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

And 40+ tired and cranky mother's don't feel resentful for the curtailing of their freedom?