building survey scam FYI

[mynamehere]

Hi, you may all be more savvy than I! But this was new news to me. My neighbour was contacted about building work I've applied for permission to do... all well and good except they were sent a letter directly by a firm that said "Southwark regulations require (the planning applicant) to pay for their neighbour to have a survey as to how any work will affect the neighbour's property stucturally. Whatever the merits of knowing how work in one place affects an adjoining building, it is factually incorrect that Southwark requires that a property being worked on must pay for an adjoining property survey. The firm in this instance is:

PSG Surveys LTD

Talbot House

204-226 Imperial Drive

Harrow, Middlesex

HA2 7HH

which does not in fact exist!

[stacey-lyn]

Apart from it being factually inaccurate and that the company may or may not exist, it seems that there has been a fundamental breach of data protection otherwise how would a third party have your details and knowledge of the application? Are there other details eg a telephone contact number to arrange the 'survey'? In any event, be interesting to know what Southwark have to say about it. I'll be watching this space.

[Fuschia]

Party wall survey?

http://www.partywallsurveyors.co.uk/2011/01/why-have-i-received-a-speculative-notice-from-a-party-wall-surveyor-even-though-my-neighbour-has-only-just-put-a-planning-application-in/

[computedshorty]

This address is a P.O. Box Drop.

For

PSG Surveys LTD

Talbot House

204-226 Imperial Drive

Harrow, Middlesex

HA2 7HH

[mynamehere]

Fuschia hits the nail on the head... exactly and Stacey-lyn you're right. I've filed a report with Southwark Trading Standards and I've asked the Planning Department what they think. The Planning Dept wasn't fussed that my details had been taken for this.

[red devil]

stacey-lyn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Apart from it being factually inaccurate and that

> the company may or may not exist, it seems that

> there has been a fundamental breach of data

> protection otherwise how would a third party have

> your details and knowledge of the application? Are

> there other details eg a telephone contact number

> to arrange the 'survey'? In any event, be

> interesting to know what Southwark have to say

> about it. I'll be watching this space.

Stacey-lyn, as far as I'm aware this isn't a breach of Data Protection, but happy to be proved wrong.

It's common for planning applications to appear online.

Type in any street or specific address in this search box... http://planningonline.southwark.gov.uk/ ...and it will come up with a list of planning applications.

Click on any application number and it will give further details about the application.

It wouldn't take a genius to look at the address of an application and then write a similar letter to their immediate neighbour(s)...

[ianr]

> The firm in this instance is: PSG Surveys LTD ... which does not in fact exist!

It does. It was incorporated in January 2012. You can check any UK registerd company here: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/info

[Penguin68]

I had work done on my house - (1) my neighbour had to agree a 'party-wall' agreement before the work could go ahead - as my builder was working (had to work) on 'shared' infrastructure (2) my builder undertook a survey of relevant parts of my neighbour's property to identify its current (pre-building work) state so that it could be clear, if there were claims of consequential damage associated with my works, whether this was pre-existing or not. My neighbour did not 'pay' for this survey (it was part of the cost of my build).

So what happened may have been entirely legitimate, if poorly expressed - a survey of your neighbour's house was planned, for which your neighbour would not have to pay. Planning does require that a party-wall agreement be in place; it is in your interests that the pre-existing state of your neighbour's property be recorded, and clearly in undertaking building works your builder needs to know the 'whole' picture in case there are structural problems with shared e.g. walls which are not evident from your side.

Planning applications are published by councils; the only thing which is at issue is whether your builder has commissioned this survey - they can tell you that. They should also be indicating, if it is an additional cost to your agreed quotation, what this is. If they haven't commissioned the survey then the firm in question, which clearly has no contractual relationship with you, would not, under law, be able to bill you for any work done, as you have neither instructed them yourself, or agreed any terms directly with them.

[giggirl]

There is no breach of data protection. Planning applications are available online. If I google my own name and address then my planning application at Southwark comes up. Builders obviously trawl these sites because I had lots of letters from builders offering their services. Maybe they were scams. I couldn't tell you because I already had a builder so I didn't read the letters.

As others have said, it is best to have a party wall agreement in place. It is in everyone's best interests. I would go as far to say that if you're dealing with builders/architects other professionals who are happy to push on without a party wall agreement in place then you should be questioning what other corners are being cut on you project.

[stacey-lyn]

Understood. However, in theory, you have the option "If any other information that is provided as part of the application which falls within the definition of personal data under the Data Protection Act and is not to be published on the council's website, please contact the council's planning department".

[red devil]

giggirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I would go as far to say that if

> you're dealing with builders/architects other

> professionals who are happy to push on without a

> party wall agreement in place then you should be

> questioning what other corners are being cut on

> you project.

I would go even further and sack them, as there are serious legal ramifications for not having the necessary agreements in place.

This is an explanation of the Party Wall Act... http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/133214.pdf

mynamehere, if you intend to carry out works of a nature that could affect your neighbour's property (this isn't just limited to adjoining party walls), then you must serve your neighbour with a Party Wall Notice(s), which leads to the subsequent issue of a Party Wall Award(s).

If you haven't done so already, you first of all need to ask a suitably qualified/experienced person (surveyor/engineer/architect etc) to ascertain whether or not you need to serve such a Party Wall Notice(s) on your neighbour.

If you don't then there's no problem, and you can commence with the works (subject to Planning and Building Regulations approval).

However, if you do, then you need to formally employ a surveyor and they will serve a Notice(s) to your neighbour on your behalf.

A condition survey of your neighbour's property is then carried out, so if for example cracks appear in their house as a result of your works, you will be obliged to reinstate at your expense.

Once everything is agreed, a Party Wall Award(s) is then issued to both parties and works can commence.

Do not start the works before an Award(s) is in place.

Your neighbour will have the option of using the same surveyor you have appointed, or they are allowed to appoint their own independent surveyor...either way, you will have to cover all reasonable costs

.

This letter your neighbour received is probably from a company trying to drum up business. Tell them to ignore it for the time being, and wait for you to set things in motion. By all means if they are a legitimate company with Party Wall experience then they could ask them for a quote, but personallly I wouldn't as their approach seems very heavy handed and borders on scaremongering.

There are plenty of good reputable surveyors out there, and I would be more than happy to give you a recommendation of one I've used who is RICS (Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors) registered.

Hope this helps...

[dulwichgirl2]

I don't think it is a scam but I do think that anyone accusing businesses of such should be careful not to name them!

[mynamehere]

I have discussed this further and indeed there seems to be a London tendency to require Party Wall Agreements and in fact this makes sense. I spoke to Southwark Planning and they said that they DO NOT require it. This was very clear. It is NOT part of the Planning Application process. In fact, I may now do exactly that, have my surveyor survey my neighbour and draw up a statement of the pre-existing condition. Dulwichgirl2, The definition of scam is: scam - a fraudulent business scheme. To say I have to pay for something when Southwark says I don't is fraudulent. I now realise that these applications are poured over by people looking for business on the web. I have received a letter from another firm soliciting me to use them for party wall surveys. In fact I have used an extremely reputable engineering firm to draw up plans with an architect. They have submitted to Southwark what Southwark requires in the form that it is required. These letters that go fishing for business are in my opinion a type of scam. A survey firm that operates from a post box? Give them a go Dulwichgirl2 and post the quality of their work here.

Southwark or who ever regulates the built environment lays out a set of rules, a check list. Personnally, I use these as a minimum of what I expect. Whether Southwark should require a Party Wall Agreement, or whether I will now have one drawn up as I have become more enlightened is not the reason I started this thread. Many of you are way ahead of me but when I first saw PSG's letter it struct me as odd and having looked further, because Southwark has left the requirement of Party Wall Agreements as a grey area, firms of every sort are piling in looking for business.

[dulwichgirl2]

Southwark planning are separate from matters covered specifically by statute. PWA matters are a question between the two householders affected whereby one has to "reassure" the other that the work done will not affect detrimentally the status quo, hence why condition notes are also made. I would have expected your architect/solicitor to have gone through all this with you. Your neighbours may cause trouble/object if their rights have not been observed, he Ce perhaps the link back to the planning process, concertina-ed by the firm that contacted you.