Petition to save East Dulwich Police Station

[Sue]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but I haven't seen anything - admin please delete if it's a duplicate thread.

Apparently Boris Johnson promised before his election that "no front (police station) counter will be closed without a new improved facility being put in its place."

He changed his tune after the election, and surprise surprise, it has been announced that East Dulwich Police Station is to close.

There is more information online, together with a petition where you can support the campaign to keep a police station in East Dulwich with a 24-hour counter. You can sign it at

http://www.southwark-libdems.org.uk

However to the best of my knowledge there has not been 24/7 opening there for years?

[stacey-lyn]

> However to the best of my knowledge there has not

> been 24/7 opening there for years?

Indeed. It's been closed more than it's been open for years. They've been reducing the facilities there ever since they moved the Mounted Branch horses out. There's often a notice on the door referring you to Peckham where you sit for hours with offenders waiting to 'sign in'. Nice.

[Guest]

Beware: I signed this petition and now regret it.

What neither the OP nor the website tells you is that signing actually registers your personal details in an account on the Southwark Liberal Democrats website. It then sends you an email asking you to confirm your email address, apparently to confirm your identity before adding your name to the petition, but in reality confirming the account. There doesn't appear to be an option to delete your details from the site either.

I'm completely outraged by this. I would never have voluntarily registered my personal details on the site and I assume even the Libdems understand that it's possible to agree on one point without wanting to become a supporter of the party. Who knows what trumped-up statistics they'll publish about people showing interest in their policies etc.

Southwark Libdems, please communicate openly and honestly. You should be ashamed of this kind of subterfuge.

[James Barber]

I'm realy sorry Ms B. This isnt how its meant to work.

If you ever get an email it will have an unsubscribe at the bottom or feel free to contact me I'll ensure your details are removed.

[Guest]

Thanks, James. In the meantime I sent an email to the main address on the website home page asking them to delete it. If that doesn't happen I'll certainly be in touch.

It's been a while since I last looked at Data Protection requirements but I'm pretty sure that this process isn't compliant at the moment as I believe you should inform people why you need the information, what you'll use it for and how they can manage it. And I'm not sure that clicking 'unsubscribe' necessarily deletes all your details as I have requested them to; often it's just a choice to opt out of receiving direct marketing - not the same thing.

[stacey-lyn]

Before you sign the petition there's the fine print:

"If you agree, the Liberal Democrats and their elected representatives may use the information you provide to contact you about issues you may find of interest. Some of the contacts may be automated. You can opt out of these contacts at any time by contacting us."

[Guest]

But it's in a tiny font. Now wondering if the Southwark LibDems has an Equal Opportunities adviser as the usual advice would be that small fonts in general - and especially when used for legal information like this - discriminate against anyone with poor sight, and in particular the over-40s - people like me, in fact. If you want everyone to be able to pick it up it needs to be 12pt or more really.

More importantly, as I said already, nor does it say that the details will be used to create an account on their site, As I mentioned, 'unsubscribing' or opting out is not usually the same as deleting your details from all their systems - and in any case you shouldn't HAVE to request to have your details deleted when you were not fully informed in the first place what they were going to be used for. I also think the OP should have stated up front that this is a LibDem initiative and made clear that you're not just signing a petition.

Yep, still annoyed.

[stacey-lyn]

Points taken.

[first mate]

Truly disgusting- if this is what major political parties are getting up to, imagine what everyone else is doing.

[KalamityKel]

Ms B Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I also think the OP

> should have stated up front that this is a LibDem

> initiative and made clear that you're not just

> signing a petition.

The "OP" is not a LibDem representative and likely to not be aware like yourself of the connection so your comment, which could be construed as suggesting there's some underhanded business going on, is irrelevant.

[Sue]

Ms B Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Beware: I signed this petition and now regret it.

>

>

> What neither the OP nor the website tells you is

> that signing actually registers your personal

> details in an account on the Southwark Liberal

> Democrats website. It then sends you an email

> asking you to confirm your email address,

> apparently to confirm your identity before adding

> your name to the petition, but in reality

> confirming the account. There doesn't appear to be

> an option to delete your details from the site

> either.

>

> I'm completely outraged by this. I would never

> have voluntarily registered my personal details on

> the site and I assume even the Libdems understand

> that it's possible to agree on one point without

> wanting to become a supporter of the party. Who

> knows what trumped-up statistics they'll publish

> about people showing interest in their policies

> etc.

>

> Southwark Libdems, please communicate openly and

> honestly. You should be ashamed of this kind of

> subterfuge.

xxxxxxx

There IS an opt out option. Please look at the website again, and check your facts before posting.

I opted out of further communications. (Edited to add) It does ALSO say that you can opt out in the future at any time, but you can definitely also opt out from the outset, as I did.

Giving your email address is solely so that nobody can sign the petition pretending to be you and giving your email address. This is common practice. You then get an email which you reply to, to confirm that the email address given was genuinely from you.

I think it would be a pity if people are now put off signing the petition.

Edited again to say: I have no connection whatsoever with the LibDems, and I think the issue of who has started the petition is completely irrelevant to the substantive issue about the closure of ED Police Station, which is why I saw no need to include information about the Lib Dems in the OP.

Edited again for clarity.

[Guest]

I wonder if you've checked the details yourself (or read my posts). I wasted quite a bit of time last night on this and as I far as I can see you can opt out of receiving further updates but there is no option for (a) not registering your details in a new account in the first place or (b) deleting them completely from the LibDem's systems.

I repeat, there was no warning up front that details would be used for this purpose. The heading on the webpage is 'sign the petition' not 'create a personal account'. As far as I can see there is no way you could sign this petition without creating the account.

James, I have not received any response to the email I sent last night so please could you help make sure my details are removed from the site? I guess this also means removing them from the petition, which is a pity. I have CC'd you on a follow-up email. Sorry to keep going on about this but there are a number of issues here I feel strongly about.

[Twirly]

As I happen to agree with the aims of the petition, I thought I'd also sign it, but check the process at the same time with regard to Ms B's issues.

There is indeed a tick box on the petition that allows you to opt out of further communication with the Lib Dems. This is unchecked by default, so Ms B did not register for any communications from the Lib Dems (and neither did I).

However, when I received the email to confirm my address, it then took me through to a part of the site which showed my "account" with the LibDems, allowing my to change my password, but nowhere could I see a means of closing the account down, and nowhere in the process was I informed that by signing the petition I would be setting up any form of account with the Lib Dems. This seems rather disingenuous.

But, looking at the email I received, it does say:

If you did not register at the Southwark Liberal Democrats website, you are receiving this email because someone else entered your details on the site. Please ignore or delete the email and you should not receive further mailings from us.

Which sort of suggests that you don't have an account. So I hit the sign out button on "my account", then tried to sign in again - I put my email address in, signed in and received another email which gave me a link to "my account". So clearly the details have been saved and an account set up when I didn't want one, with no obvious option to delete it. I suspect that the LibDems are skating on thin legal ice here, but I'm no expert.

And James - since I've not actually subscribed to any newsletters from the LibDems, there is no unsubscribe button on either of the emails I've received.

Having said all of that - I realise that Sue posted the poll with the best of intentions, and I'm pleased to have signed it. Shame that any discussion of the closure is being railroaded by the LibDem's slightly odd website.

[mynamehere]

I also agree that this important petition should have been "stand alone". Now it seems to be derailed! Ridiculous. As Sue says, I am also outside the political process. Over the years I've worked with anyone who'd listen.

[Guest]

In case there is any confusion, it's not my intention to derail the petition. I got into this situation because I thought it was worth supporting and signed it. I just wish the conditions could have been set out more clearly up front so people know what they're being signed up for.

[Sue]

Twirly said:

However, when I received the email to confirm my address, it then took me through to a part of the site which showed my "account" with the LibDems, allowing my to change my password, but nowhere could I see a means of closing the account down, and nowhere in the process was I informed that by signing the petition I would be setting up any form of account with the Lib Dems. This seems rather disingenuous.

xxxxxx

I have looked at the website again, and I clicked on "my account" at the bottom.

In order to register on the website (and get into "my account") it appears that you have to give not only your email address but a password.

If you have not at any point entered a password, I don't see how you can have been registered just because you happen to have given your email address in order for your petition signature to be verified as being you.

I have not tested this because I do not want to register either!

I am very sorry that my good intentions in starting this thread have been mired in red herrings :(

[redjam]

Getting back to the subject of the police station closure itself, can I ask (genuine question) why people feel they really need a police station in East Dulwich? I can't think of any situation where I would walk in to a police station, rather than phone the police on either 999 or 101 and wait for them to come to me. The only thing I could think of was if I'd found a purse and wanted to hand it in, but obviously that's not enough of a reason to keep it open.

Maybe I'm missing something ... but I can't help but feel that the station is a bit of an eyesore and might be better sold off so that the site can be redeveloped? Surely having a police officer manning a front desk in a relatively quiet area is not the best use of resources?

Very happy to be corrected/educated on this - as I say, it's a genuine question.

[Sue]

redjam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Getting back to the subject of the police station

> closure itself, can I ask (genuine question) why

> people feel they really need a police station in

> East Dulwich?

xxxx

When I had two credit cards stolen from my purse (I still don't know how - I only found out when one of the credit card companies phoned me re unusual transactions) the police would not take a report on the phone and I had to go physically to a police station and fill in forms.

I had to walk to Peckham police station because the ED police station was closed, and then wait for ages to be seen amongst, as I think someone said above, some not very savoury people.

I do take your point redjam, but Peckham is not very convenient.

[keano77]

I went to ED police station last week for a crime number (card cloned). They were open at 8pm. They requested I get further information from my bank before they would give me one. with the requested information I go back to ED police station tonight only to find a notice stating Closed until further notice.

I had to go down to the station near the old tip, near Elephant and Castle.

very inconvenient

[benjaminty]

Whilst I think we definitely need a counter presence; the building itself is an absolute eye sore.

Anyone know when it will be bull dozed? Can I help?

[Sue]

benjaminty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Whilst I think we definitely need a counter

> presence; the building itself is an absolute eye

> sore.

>

> Anyone know when it will be bull dozed? Can I

> help?

xxxxxx

Be careful what you wish for, you may get something worse!

There are some relatively new buildings in ED which make me wince every time I pass them :)

[Otta]

They'd be better off cashing in on the building site, and opening a shop front counter service on Lordship Lane.

[Sue]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They'd be better off cashing in on the building

> site, and opening a shop front counter service on

> Lordship Lane.

xxxxxx

Yes that's a good idea (though goodness knows what the rent of that would be).

[AbDabs]

Thankfully, I've only rarely had to use a police station (fingers crossed and touching wood) but those few occasions needed someone close at hand. Lordship Lane police station is not best placed to be of the most use. If you don't live locally you wouldn't find it on a night out. A small shop front amidst the bars would be much better - even a flat above the street as long as it has an entrance on LL would be fine.

[Lishyloo]

There useless any way