Group of teenage boys & girls near East Dulwich station & up towards Dog Kennel Hill (Lounged)

[*Bob*]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nope - just pointing out the many coded references

> to 'it' in several posts on here

Pussyfooting around yourself then, I'd say.

[????]

In the spirit of the forum....slightly ironic too, hence the '' but I've noticed ED forumities aren't that good at picking irony up, maybe the nuances of the medium....buy maybe not

[mockney piers]

quite bob quite.

[????]

You don't like me much do you mockney?

[SeanMacGabhann]

"money, rap music and being a bad boy. "The world owes me" / "Untouchable" / "I can have what I want" attitude."

money and rap music are fine in and of themselves. The aggressive attitude and behaviour stems from what's missing in their lives more than what they are consuming

The attitude is just a front in many cases - ok, very few of us are going to get behind that front, but nevertheless we aren't dealing with demons here. Just broken families. I don't mean broken just monetarily - many of them are well off.

I bet I run into the one genuinely evil git on my way home now, just because I said that...

[ratty]

I think I am still in the dark. Unless we are referring to the fact that a great number of gang members in SE London are BME????? In which case I aint seen nobody pussyfooting around it really.

[falcao]

Perhaps ???? is right? What did the poster who claimed to have seen teenagers who "were definitely not from East Dulwich" mean? How did he/she identify this fact? As far as I'm concerend it's not a race issue. The dad who was kicked to death recently was attacked by a group of white youths.

[ratty]

And the behaviour issue is because these kids have been brought up by kids themselves. Ooh - I missed the "definitely not from East Dulwich" bit - wrong colour faces d'ya think? Eeek! I'd really better move away then!

[*Bob*]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In the spirit of the forum....slightly ironic too,

> hence the '' but I've noticed ED forumities aren't

> that good at picking irony up, maybe the nuances

> of the medium....buy maybe not

Well stop beating around the bush and say something something about it then. You know - about THE BLACKS. Chop chop!

[*Bob*]

Or say something about what other people are or aren't saying about THE BLACKS.

But say something.

[TillieTrotter]

My son goes to the Charter school and apparently Kingsdale kids came on a revenge visit and one was carrying a knife. Yesterday there was a police presence at kicking out time and as my son (bless him) put it, "There was lots of social security too". It is bloody worrying and not the first time we have had some gang fights going on outside this school. I would love to shoot through but to where???

[david_carnell]

MelbourneGr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's a certain group of kids. Influenced by money,

> rap music and being a bad boy. "The world owes me"

> / "Untouchable" / "I can have what I want"

> attitude. When I see kids behaving in such a way,

> I'm not afraid to show my disgust.

>

> What these kids need are role models. Another

> option is to do it the old fashioned way, a good

> clip around the ear!

I don't think rap music has much to do with it. In the 1950s people thought rock and roll would lead to devil worshipping and teenagers fornicating. Hip-hop is the modern equivalent. If rap talks about guns and drugs it's a reflection on society not the reason for the existence of aforementioned guns and drugs.

[Fuschia]

"Compared to adults, children and young people experience greater levels of violent crime

victimisation. According to the 2006?2007 BCS, the risk of becoming a victim of violent

crime is 3.6 per cent for a British adult. However, the available figures for children and

young people provide a striking and stark contrast. For young men aged 16 to 24 the risk

was almost four times greater: 13.8 per cent experienced a violent crime of some sort in

the year prior to their BCS interview.

... almost half of children attending school surveyed in the 2004 YJB Youth Survey had been victims of a crime in the previous year. And according to the 2005 OCJS, just under one-fifth (18 per cent) of young

people aged from 10 to 25 years had been a victim of an assault in the last 12 months, with

10 to 15 year olds more likely to have been victims than 16 to 25 year olds (20 per cent and

16 per cent respectively). The evidence clearly suggests that children and young people

suffer much higher rates of victimisation"

Source: ?Knife Crime? A review of evidence and policy

Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

King?s College London

2007

[david_carnell]

Nor are gangs and gang fights a modern phenomenan. My own father was a member of a so-called ganag in the 60s who caused "terror" up and down the country fighting with their nemesises(sp?). They were known as "mods". Go back another decade and there were teddy-boys armed with flick knives and chains. Football hooliganism was rife in the 70s and 80s and is now almost extinct.

The most dangerous thing about modern society is the reporting of crime by the media.

[blinder999]

I think rap music's got a lot to do with it. If you're a feisty adolescent with no male role model at home, people like Lethal Bizzle are only too happy to fill the void:

I'lllll....crack your skull

Leave you fu***d up in a wheelchair

If you try to clash this evil bre

And again

I'lllll....crack your skull

Leave you fu***d up in a wheelchair

If you try to clash this evil bre

[JAMAKABI]

Rude boy fi just seckle

Don't let Jamakabi ga draw fi da metal

Not da gun, me draw for da belt buckle

I make a bigger boy feel so likkle

Just swing my belt round like a nun chuckle

Bus you head and make your blood start trickle

One more lick fi make da p***y hole topple

Greet da bre with a fistful of knuckle

[NEEKO]

Killa killa real real

Ni**as know the deal deal

Don't care how you feel

I will be cockin back my steel straight

Bullets bullets run run

Fire fire bun

If you don't like killa killa

Ni**a you can suck your mom

[FLOW DAN]

Fi start bun a MC

Bun fire pon a batty boy MC

Pick up my hour disrespect me

Man I go step in a him face with my new Nikey's

16 bar 16 skar 16 noog shot in a you raas

Man a toppa toppa and lickle spar raas

Better hide, me a bun them boy

Bun grass

[OZZIE B]

Me have a thing called desert eagle

Make me think evil

And want fi kill people

Yo second gun is a Tec, nice

You cut a lie me a gone take you life fool

You wanna come and play your tool

That's not the right tool

That's just any tool

Alright prick I'll knock you on the beat

I'm gon' keep it clean

You don't really want to beef

[FORCER]

Anyway I told you already we nah play

Spray these swag MC's right away

He's chatting shit about he's got an AK

Armshouse comes down the boy runs away

It's 2 double 04 ni**as don't play

Streets are mine if you force I will slay

You sound so gay, I'm gonna call you fake

Don't care about your crew bun them anyday

[DEMON]

You don't wanna bring Armshouse

I'll bring Armshouse to your mums house

You don't wanna bring no beef

Bring some beef and loose some teeth

And again

You don't wanna bring Armshouse

I'll bring Armshouse to your mums house

You don't wanna bring no beef

Bring some beef and loose some teeth

[HOTSHOT]

You got a gun troll shoot it

You'll say it bounce so shoot it

What a waitin for you yute, shoot it

No one needs to show you how to hold a gun

Shoot it shoot it shoot it

You nah shoot it if you nah true to it

Yo muff you better mute it

If you nah mute it, da glove come off ga mute it

Put it in your mouth like a tooth pick

It's too late no shoot it

2-2 shoot it

8 mill shoot it

9 mill shoot it

Mark 10 shoot it

Mark 11 shoot it

12 gauge shoot it

Inch 12 a shoot it

Revelton shoot it

44 shoot it

45 shoot it

Spoil min shoot it

Tommy Gun shoot it

Lyman shoot it

Kalashnikoff shoot it

AK shoot it

Gatlin shoot it

[BJL]

???? - stop being so cowardly. What exactly did you mean?

Falcao - there was no mention of people from "outside the area" in the original post. Shu.Kurimu.Sensei wrote:

I've seen a lot of kids from Peckham and other areas south of here coming into ED on the 37 and 185, literally in packs, getting off around Nero then moving up towards Alleyns.

Presumably that's how they decided that they weren't from around here. Or their school uniforms - I don't know.

[pk]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Compared to adults, children and young people

> experience greater levels of violent crime

> victimisation. According to the 2006?2007 BCS, the

> risk of becoming a victim of violent

> crime is 3.6 per cent for a British adult.

> However, the available figures for children and

> young people provide a striking and stark

> contrast. For young men aged 16 to 24 the risk

> was almost four times greater: 13.8 per cent

> experienced a violent crime of some sort in

> the year prior to their BCS interview.

>

> ... almost half of children attending school

> surveyed in the 2004 YJB Youth Survey had been

> victims of a crime in the previous year. And

> according to the 2005 OCJS, just under one-fifth

> (18 per cent) of young

> people aged from 10 to 25 years had been a victim

> of an assault in the last 12 months, with

> 10 to 15 year olds more likely to have been

> victims than 16 to 25 year olds (20 per cent and

> 16 per cent respectively). The evidence clearly

> suggests that children and young people

> suffer much higher rates of victimisation"

>

> Source: ?Knife Crime? A review of evidence and

> policy

>

> Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

> King?s College London

>

> 2007

academic review of evidence! thanks for sharing

this is what people should be looking for rather than 'i think rap is bad'(for example) and assuming that that's true

[macroban]

> academic review of evidence! thanks for sharing

> this is what people should be looking for

National averages being projected on to a local situation.

[*Bob*]

(Eminem - Who Knew?)

Damn! How much damage can you do with a pen?

Man I'm just as f**ked up as you woulda been

if you woulda been, in my shoes, who woulda thought

Slim Shady would be somethin that you woulda bought

that woulda made you get a gun and shoot at a cop

I just said it - I ain't know if you'd do it or not

How the f**k was I supposed to know?

[pk]

BJL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>> Falcao - there was no mention of people from

> "outside the area" in the original post.

> Shu.Kurimu.Sensei wrote:

>

>

but it says "These groups really stand out, there's no way they live in the area"

[pk]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > academic review of evidence! thanks for sharing

>

>

> > this is what people should be looking for

>

> National averages being projected on to a local

> situation.

oh yeah, better going with one persons unresearched opinion

[BJL]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> BJL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >> Falcao - there was no mention of people from

> > "outside the area" in the original post.

> > Shu.Kurimu.Sensei wrote:

> >

> >

>

> but it says "These groups really stand out,

> there's no way they live in the area"

"I've seen a lot of kids from Peckham and other areas south of here coming into ED on the 37 and 185, literally in packs, getting off around Nero then moving up towards Alleyns. These groups really stand out, there's no way they live in the area..."

[mockney piers]

On the contrary ????, I've liked quite a few of your posts, and I like that you're a man (?) of opinions. Just because I've disagreed with some of them doesn't reflect personally.

In this case I'd rather you'd have (quite rightly) said something more on the lines of

"posters seem to be avoiding mentioning the elephant in the room, that talk of knife culture and rap culture is avoiding use of the term black' or 'i notice this debate is suspiciously colour blind' or something, rather than pussyfooting with a post about pussyfooting ;)

I think knife culture isn't anything to do with colour and it's nationwide. Even growing up it was an issue, but as stated by others, their use is more prevalent now.

I do however think the macho gun obsessed rap culture is horribly unhealthy and a much more urban thing (thang?). I'm not blaming the music industry any more than I blame Rock & roll for bored teenagers beating each other up in the 50s. But there is something in the misogyny, misanthropy and nihilism of this culture that is so much more destructive to the bored/impressionable youngsters who buy into it.

That's not an exclusively black thing by any stretch, but locally I witness it much more among the black youth, but that's I guess because I witness a lot more black youth on my commute.

[macroban]

> oh yeah, better going with one persons unresearched opinion

I do not agree.

[PowerCorruptionLies]

If I can add my 10 pence worth of thought on these issues:-

1) Teenage and Youth Crime is not a modern phenomenon (read 'Brighton Rock' or watch 'Gangs of New York' both fiction based on fact!)

2) Vigilantism "a clip round the ear" will be no deterrent to those who are already engaged in a life of violence. Many of the kids engaged in mugging and bullying are doing so as a result of their backgrounds, broken homes where they may well experience violence and intimidation day in day out. In short, for those of us who have been fortunate to have been brought up by loving and supportive parents it is near impossible to put ourselves in the shoes of a child that has experienced none of this, has been brought in to the world by similarly ignorant damaged people and are therefore all to often condemned to simply live and repeat the cycle of abuse and fear.

3) Undoubtedly the media age in which we live, violent electronic games, gangster rap etc. all of which quite deliberately and aggressively marketed at kids is intensifying the scale of the issue and "normalising" anti-social behaviour.

Solutions? The perportrators of these crimes are in many cases severely disfunctional and emotionally damaged individuals, prison (or young offenders institutions) alone will not fix this, in fact the system is often causing more problems than it solves. The experience of 'Brat Camps' in the States is showing positive results, these kids need emotional and spiritual mentoring a long, expensive and resource intensive process. Put simply, as a society we must decide how much this matters to us and allocate resources, afterall if billions of pounds can be found to build and run the Olympics, those same billions could