Assault on East Dulwich Grove

[Jeremy]

Cyclemonkey Wrote:

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> Jenny - i can't agree with you there.

It's been a while since anybody called me that!

Yeah I knew some people would disagree. I just feel that there's no point putting yourself in danger unless there's really no alternative. It's hard to reclaim the streets when it's 2am, and there's nobody else around except for you and a violent criminal.

I know this thread is going off topic, and I hope it isn't seen as disrespectful to the victim. I think it's important that people are aware that these things can happen, and use appropriate vigilance.

[Otta]

Once again, I agree. No one would argue that in an ideal world, the streets would be safe, and women would be able to walk alone without risk. However, until that happens, it's better to be cautious.

As Jeremy said, no disrespect to the young woman who has been attacked here, I hope she is coping with what has happened, and that she recovers quickly.

[MissDumpling]

Maybe a curfew on men, so that women can wander the streets all night if they wish to?

[keane]

This is the second rape in East Dulwich that I remember - there was one around a year ago in Cyrena road and it was really hard to find out whether that person was ever apprehended - last time I checked (was really worried for safety as very close to where we live and often walk home that way) the police officer I asked said they hadn't caught anyone for it.

[KidKruger]

I get disturbed sometimes by comments about self defence courses for women. They can unintentionally be dangerous. When practising the moves in a gym/hall it all seems so straight forward and consequently the student can take too much assurance from the training. It takes years to be truly effective whether man or woman. Unless the self defence course focusses on avoidance and prevention, the course may have limited relevance to what you do on the day. In fact, this should be one of the first things taught on a women's self defence course.

The assailant has you on the back foot from the second you know he exists and often the only reason he can get proximate enough to make an attack is because you can't do anything in retaliation (apart from run) until he does something.

[Loz]

MissDumpling Wrote:

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> Maybe a curfew on men, so that women can wander the streets all night if they wish to?

Hmmm. Trolling, much?

[Metallic]

This offence comes only a few weeks after a sexual assault in Dulwich Park, in broad daylight.

[MissDumpling]

Not trolling, but a response to the notion that women shouldn't go out alone at night, as suggested earlier in the thread.

[handymaneast dulwich]

I would like to catch him and ''have a few words''

[Saila]

I agree with some of the above posts ? there?s little you can do to prepare yourself.

Thank god she reported it.

[DJKillaQueen]

There's one thing that no-one is coonsidering when writing about defence techniques etc...and that is the fear of the victim. Many people freeze in situations of danger. If the assailant is armed or threatens violence if the victim does not comply, many victims do comply (this is why often no sounds etc are heard during an assualt).

We also have to be very sensitive and considerate in regards to what we write here too. We must remember that a young women has been the victim of a serious crime. She will be going through a range of emotions at the moment including 'what if'. Her 'fear' will go on for some time yet too (it's not just confined to the fear experienced during the assaut). The onus of this thread so far has been on what a woman can do to protect herself, rather than what can be done to catch the vile scumbag that committed the offence.

Edited to say crossed post with Saila

[buddug]

Loz wrote: 'Hmmm. Trolling, much?'

No, not trolling. What Jeremy etc are proposing, from the kindness of their hearts actually, but quite misguided, is a curfew on women. So some women, quite naturally, are therefore turning the tables, maybe playing devil's advocate, and saying, hang on, maybe it's a curfew on men we need. You see, a minority of men do these dreadful things - an absolute minority - but while they do, all men are tainted by this. Not fair, I know. But don't expect us women to cower at home and not have a social or work life. The heartening thing about this is all the men who are posting expressing horror, empathy and dismay over this attack.

[zeban]

I feel so so much for the victim and hope with all my heart she is able to not let this vile, pathetic piece of s**t ruin her life.

I used to work nights but couldn't afford a cab all the way home so researched and found a cab office near my house which was next to or very near one of the bus stops on my bus route home . That way I was able to get a night bus from where I worked in central London- which is always busy, loads of people about every night of the week, and then once off the bus got a cab directly to my flat, paying only the minimum fare which is usually around 5 of 6 quid instead of the ?20 or so I would have had to pay if I'd got a cab all the way. It' a really great way to avoid hiuge cab fares without having to compromise your safety. I also always asked the driver to wait until I was inside before driving off to make sure I got in safe.

[Otta]

Not a curfew on women at all! Just that if it's late, and dark, you might want to walk home with someone. I always walk my female friends home if I'm out with them, not because I'm sexist and think they are weak, but because if there were any nasty types lurking around, hopefully they wouldn't bother her if she was with me. Two women walking together would also work.

I don't think that women are pathetic little weak things,butsSalia's very brave post suggests, nasty things do happen to normal women when they least expect it, even on their own doorsteps!

No offence meant by the "normal" Salia!

[johnlward]

Hi all

Terrible to hear this has happened. Whilst dropping my wife off at 6am last Monday at the bus stop opposite the Kwik Fit we were confronted by a young black girl claiming she had been attacked by a black man, about six feet tall around the corner

He hit her with a stone on the side of her head but luckily she kicked and screamed and managed to run off

We called the police and they arrived within five minutes. They took her details and my wife left her with them

However, we have to say the police werent very convincing, in my opinion, and I really do hope these incidents that are occuring arent in anyway related

Maybe now they'll pull their fingers out

I do hope they find this scumbag and soon before anymore innocents are hurt

[Loz]

buddug Wrote:

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> Loz wrote: 'Hmmm. Trolling, much?'

>

> No, not trolling. What Jeremy etc are proposing, from the kindness of their hearts actually, but

> quite misguided, is a curfew on women.

No, he's not. He's saying be careful and take precautions when you can.

I don't mean to make this sound like the Victim Olympics, but a male is much more likely to be violently attacked than a female. There are certain places I would not walk around at night alone and places I would not go at night. There are times when I will take a cab instead of a bus for safety reasons. Men have to take precautions. Women have to take precautions. That's life in the big city. No one is suggesting a curfew.

I considered it trolling because some women's groups have actually seriously suggested it.

Anyway, stay safe people. Hopefully this will be a rare occurrence. And I hope the poor woman gets all the help and support she needs.

[Jeremy]

Nobody is suggesting a curfew. A curfew is a mandatory/imposed order to return home at a given time. I'm suggesting women try not to put themselves in a situation where they have to walk home alone at night. And if the situation is unavoidable, then take sensible precautions.

[george74]

Is it me or is East Dulwich becoming a dangerous place to live? Every time I log onto this site, there is an attack, a strange guy hanging around or another theft? Whatever happened to the nice ED I moved to all those years back.....

I feel so sorry for this girl. If only we could catch these sick people and make them disappear!

[iceicebaby]

Extra vigilance without being paranoid now everyone. I am concerned that recent attempted attacks I have read about on the forum are related to this hideous event. Report sinister behaviour to the police. I want to string this bastard up.

[Loz]

george74 Wrote:

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> Is it me or is East Dulwich becoming a dangerous place to live? Every time I log onto this site,

> there is an attack, a strange guy hanging around or another theft? Whatever happened to the nice

> ED I moved to all those years back.....

No, you are just getting more information. ED is, for London, a very safe place to live. But it is part of a big city, so being aware is being clever.

[Guest]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Nobody is suggesting a curfew. A curfew is a

> mandatory/imposed order to return home at a given

> time. I'm suggesting women try not to put

> themselves in a situation where they have to walk

> home alone at night. And if the situation is

> unavoidable, then take sensible precautions.

Have to say I agree with Jeremy. If we're talking generally, the best way I've heard it put is that sometimes there's a choice between being right and being safe.

That said, of course it's not right that women should have to fear being attacked; I'm so sorry for the poor girl who has been assaulted, but we don't know the circumstances so for all we know he might have been hiding on her doorstep, which would be hard to avoid.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Loz Wrote:

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> george74 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Is it me or is East Dulwich becoming a dangerous

> place to live? Every time I log onto this site,

> > there is an attack, a strange guy hanging around

> or another theft? Whatever happened to the nice

> > ED I moved to all those years back.....

>

> No, you are just getting more information. ED is,

> for London, a very safe place to live. But it is

> part of a big city, so being aware is being

> clever.

You can find information on crime levels here: http://maps.met.police.uk/

The 'heatmap' goes right down to subward level and if you click on the map you get information about how crime compares to London average (as well as the trend).

East Dulwich ward has an 'average' crime rate for London and has dropped each year for the last few years.

[JohnL]

But the majority of people in ED (and Peckham) haven't been attacked.

I'm male so can't comment on this specific type of attack, but I'm out alone 3 times a week at least, walk back down Rye Lane or up East Dulwich road. I tend to stick to main roads and have lost my smile because that doesn't work (I feign a look of determined hardness).

Ms B Wrote:

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> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Nobody is suggesting a curfew. A curfew is a

> > mandatory/imposed order to return home at a

> given

> > time. I'm suggesting women try not to put

> > themselves in a situation where they have to

> walk

> > home alone at night. And if the situation is

> > unavoidable, then take sensible precautions.

>

> Have to say I agree with Jeremy. If we're talking

> generally, the best way I've heard it put is that

> sometimes there's a choice between being right and

> being safe.

>

> That said, of course it's not right that women

> should have to fear being attacked; I'm so sorry

> for the poor girl who has been assaulted, but we

> don't know the circumstances so for all we know he

> might have been hiding on her doorstep, which

> would be hard to avoid.

[Guest]

Good for you. No idea why you quoted my post in your reply, though.

[RosieH]

Been suggested elsewhere on the thread, but perhaps the debate on curfews could continue on a different thread. A woman has been subjected to a horrific assault, and it feels hideously insensitive to start getting into a debate about taking a taxi late at night.

Please take it to the Lounge.