Who to vote for?

[pk]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub

> members up and down the country, desperately

> trying to convince themselves and others that a

> vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly

> delusional!!

surely it's a vote for a vote on Brexit

which to me is the right answer - a referendum on the issue in isolation rather than with the surrounding chaos of the GE, as was the case first time around but with the benefit of more information and (hopefully) a binary outcome that can be delivered rather than delusional 'brexit means brexit' BS

[JohnL]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub

> members up and down the country, desperately

> trying to convince themselves and others that a

> vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly

> delusional!!

I think some of the voters switching back to Labour are looking for another hung parliament not a Corbyn majority.

The less likely Corbyn looks to win a majority the more likely this group are to vote for Labour

[Blah Blah]

Indeed. The worst thing that can happen for remain supporters thinking of switching away from Labour to the Libdems, is that they gift Boris seats in Labour marginals and therefore a working majority that pretty much rules out any chance of a 2nd referendum. This is precisely why Farage decided not to stand candidates in Tory held seats, marginal or otherwise.

Personally, I think Jo Swinson has been naive. She was the one person blocking a government of unity following a NC vote, by refusing to allow the leader of the opposition lead that coalition. That was the one sure fire chance to seize control of the Brexit process and get no deal off the table. A GE was always a huge risk, but you know these politicians always seem to think they are more popular than they really are. If Boris wins that majority on the 12th, she will be blamed for not having enabled that option to bring down the government. If Parliament is hung, she is going to have to agree to the very Corbyn led coalition she was so stubbornly opposed to before the election.

[Sephiroth]

"Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub members up and down the country, desperately trying to convince themselves and others that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly delusional!!"

It's a bit of a rock and a hard place. the only route to potentially allowing the country to choose not to proceed with Brexit is via Labour policy. There is no other route

But as we can see, Labour themselves don't believe in it, won't campaign for it and so would we really get anywhere? There are still not enough leaders spelling out clearly the problems with leaving - too many people still believe it's a benefit and not a shitshow. I know many people won't change their mind (eg The Cat) but the whole thing is so finely balanced it doesn't need many people to have changed their minds

But even tho Labour is the route to that possible reversal, you have to get them elected (a red flag for many) AND trust them to deliver (I don't)

But what options do we have

[fishbiscuits]

Well, if you have the luxury of living in a constituency where the Tories don't stand a chance, then you don't have to vote Labour. If you're in Dulwich and Norwood, the Lib Dems have stood aside, so a vote for the Greens at least sends a clear signal that you're unhappy with Labour's stance on the EU.

[Seabag]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> "Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub

> members up and down the country, desperately

> trying to convince themselves and others that a

> vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly

> delusional!!"

>

> It's a bit of a rock and a hard place. the only

> route to potentially allowing the country to

> choose not to proceed with Brexit is via Labour

> policy. There is no other route

>

> But as we can see, Labour themselves don't believe

> in it, won't campaign for it and so would we

> really get anywhere? There are still not enough

> leaders spelling out clearly the problems with

> leaving - too many people still believe it's a

> benefit and not a shitshow. I know many people

> won't change their mind (eg The Cat) but the whole

> thing is so finely balanced it doesn't need many

> people to have changed their minds

>

> But even tho Labour is the route to that possible

> reversal, you have to get them elected (a red flag

> for many) AND trust them to deliver (I don't)

>

> But what options do we have

I?ve run out of parties NOT to vote for.

God help me!

[uncleglen]

second leaflet from the Greens- not very Green- anyone with half a brain cell knows they are around and can read their distortions of the truth

[Blah Blah]

What distortions of the truth would they be Uncle? Meanwhile, if you really do want to see distortions of the truth, I suggest you watch Boris Johnson's car crash of an interview with Andrew Marr on iplayer. I suggest you also revisit the claims made by both sides during the referendum campaign ;)

[diable rouge]

People are wasting their time trying to reason with racist xenophobes, political jihadis who would be willing to sacrifice their first born on the altar of Brexit. Instead I'd like to hear the thoughts of any centre/left leaning Brexit voters on here who don't want 5 years of a Johnson Gov. To me there was never any chance of there ever being a so-called Lexit, it was always going to end up with a hard right government. Are you happy to accept that if it means Brexit? Does Brexit trump everything else?...

[Seabag]

I watched, or tried to watch the Andrew Marr ?interview?

How can anyone take that seriously, like really, wtf. But sadly they do.

I?m sure there?s a whole group of lifers in the Tory party looking on and wondering the same thing. It?s like a description I read of Johnson, likened to a rhino. He stomps, charges and throws dust up to cover his movements. He avoids the truth in questions and adds false premises and half factual statements, and then bullies on with bare faced lies, one after the other.

You saw how he weaponised the London Bridge attacks, where he knowingly attempted to turn the situation onto anyone but him and his party, their cuts and policies. Lies, mis truths, parry, deflection and blame. He?s been condemned by many respected prison reformers, and campaigners over it. But he?s shameless, and opportunistic. Dead people are collateral now. Anything is armoury to fire at the opposition. (How many times has he mentioned Jeremy Corbyn now?)

It?s like a snuff movie, where reality and anything you might recognise as decency in campaigning is killed off, live on screen, as the camera keeps rolling.

I?d talked to my kids in the past about the dangers of in complacency in voting, how historically the far right fed on it, but I?d been talking from a distance in time, looking back. But never did I think we?d be looking at such a blatant far right propaganda driven group of politicians in our lifetime, not here in our own country. It?s shocking,disturbing, and also very very real.

And lastly, the disowning comments about the past ten years of Tory rule, with ?I?ve only been PM for 120 days!? as if that exonerates him from the policies and practices that have lead this country to this most challenging of places, is testament alone to the duplicity of the man. He, they are not to be be trusted, they don?t care that you know that either. They?ll do anything, anyhow, to form the next government.

God fookin help us!

[diable rouge]

Seabag Wrote:

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> But never did I think we?d be looking at such a

> blatant far right propaganda driven group of

> politicians in our lifetime, not here in our own

> country. It?s shocking,disturbing, and also very

> very real.

Aided and abetted by an increasing rabid right-wing press and news outlets like the BBC who regularly report 'Downing St sources' without any critical thought, and can't see that they're constantly being played. There also needs to be a receptive public to these obvious lies, and that has been made possible under the umbrella of Brexit. Stop Brexit and you stop the lies, the charlatans, the creep towards fascism...

[Captain Marvel]

Calm down you two

[diable rouge]

Keep moving, nothing to see here...

[Captain Marvel]

You've been radicalised

[diable rouge]

Lolz, you're lack of self-awareness is endearing. Keep tuning into Brendan...

[Captain Marvel]

I don't know why you get so het up, the old duffer is prolly going to win, Brexit will be averted and we will all be able to take a cheap train ride together into a Trident-free future with free broadband and care homes. That should make you happy... or will you still think we're on the brink of the apocalypse?

[dulwichbloke]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> Do the Monster Raving Looney Party still field

> candidates?

>

> Louisa.

I don't think they are in Dulwich and West Norwood. The closest thing to the Monster raving Loony Party would be Corbyn, but I appreciate you may be put off by the Labour party's racism (not to mention their manifesto promising "free" unicorns and unicorn accoutrements).

If you are an ABC voter, the Green Party would be your best bet, although an extremely long shot.

[JohnL]

Now this one was a car crash - Pat Mountain - the latest UKIP leader

Crash: "Mountain presented a copy of the Ukip manifesto, which she couldn't actually reveal the contents of because it's not being launched until Friday."

Bang: On Tommy Robinson "Because of his association with **other** racist parties, our constitution says that he cannot be permitted to join us"

Wallop: On Racism "Have you got any black candidates?" "Erm, no...I think we've got an Indian?"

[cella]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

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> I don't know why you get so het up, the old duffer

> is prolly going to win, Brexit will be averted and

> we will all be able to take a cheap train ride

> together into a Trident-free future with free

> broadband and care homes. That should make you

> happy... or will you still think we're on the

> brink of the apocalypse?

Yes of course - for most people in this country the world is potentially going to get worse on every level for the forseeable future. Maybe you think you are somehow protected from any of what may come but this is delusional at best.

[Captain Marvel]

'Most people' hahahaha

[dulwichbloke]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

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> 'Most people' hahahaha

You are laughing at the statement of opinion, but I suspect it was intended to be stated with complete unequivocal conviction as a FACT!

That's actually the amusing part.

[dulwichbloke]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Now this one was a car crash - Pat Mountain - the

> latest UKIP leader

>

> Crash: "Mountain presented a copy of the Ukip

> manifesto, which she couldn't actually reveal the

> contents of because it's not being launched until

> Friday."

>

> Bang: On Tommy Robinson "Because of his

> association with **other** racist parties, our

> constitution says that he cannot be permitted to

> join us"

>

> Wallop: On Racism "Have you got any black

> candidates?" "Erm, no...I think we've got an

> Indian?"

'Pat Mountain' - is that name for real John? It sounds like a character off Father Ted.

[diable rouge]

The previous UKIP leader was a certain Dick Braine...

[cella]

dulwichbloke Wrote:

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> Captain Marvel Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > 'Most people' hahahaha

>

> You are laughing at the statement of opinion, but

> I suspect it was intended to be stated with

> complete unequivocal conviction as a FACT!

>

> That's actually the amusing part.

You and Marvel appear to be natural uncaring bedfellows. Assuming you are not trolling as you've both been on here so long then, even if you don't have partners, you may have children, family etc who will definitely be affected by the policies of a potential right wing government and they certainly won't thank you.

[stepdown]

cella Wrote:

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> Maybe you think you are somehow protected from any

> of what may come but this is delusional at best.

Looking at the proposed changes to higher rate tax from the two major parties, you could actually stand to gain significantly from a "right wing" government. Admittedly, that does require you believing what's in the manifestos.

I am inclined to agree with you that most would be worse off as a result of these policies, which must mean there are huge swathes of the country voting against their best interest. I won't be voting for Christmas personally, but I will admit I'm starting to struggle to sympathise with the turkeys who are.