ED house prices: sanity check please

[red devil]

MrBen Wrote:

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> And my missus hasn't run off with him....yet...

Glad to hear that MrB, but it's the architect you should worry about...

[fazer71]

MrBen Wrote:

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> I'm about as deep into it as you can get.

That sounds exactly how deep I will proably need to go.

They sound great.

What's the total cost?

[MrBen]

?120-?250k+ depending on spec and footprint size to fully restore and convert a 4 bed terrace with loft and extension properly. If you want to slap lipstick on a pig and cut a few corners you could do it for perhaps ?90k minimum.

Or you could do it yourself if you had the time....

I now know this to be true.

[fazer71]

Um in my experience I always end up at the high quality price so I'm looking at ?250k which is what I've budgeted for.

Extension loft new roof and a complete internal update with new wiring plumbing kitchen bathrooms redecorate some trick lighting under floor heating etc.

I just don't know if I can face all the agro.

Also there's a problem I'll spend all that money time, effort and money and the house will be worth ?100k less than its cost me, which brings us back to house price sanity at least where crappy old house prices are concerned the numbers don't add up. No wonder there aren't many high end nice houses on the mkt everyone is waiting for the prices to catch up with what they've ended up costing on that basis those houses are cheap and the crapy ones are expensive or the cost of the building work is too high for ED it's ok for multimillion pound areas we just need for prices to go higher which again would make prices appear to be cheap because it would cost the same for building work on a similar house in a cheaper area. Crazy uk prices... Make no sense.

[fazer71]

It's interesting the government are starting to discuss cash payments to tradesmen for a discount and vat avoidance.

Most tradesmen just pocket the vat.

The old do you want to pay the vat?

When they're not even vat registered and then you get a receipt which just shows a total saying "inclusive" inclusive of what? Not vat that's for sure yet you'll be billed 20% onto of the original quote.

I'm surprised the vat man and the tax man don't have a web site to report these crooks.

The uk shady building business.

Why doesn't the government just make the banks who they now "own" make all customers have a P account so that if we pay someone builders etc for services then we as the paying customer can select to pay into their P account that way the tax man would know and the tax could be collected.

A simple system which would then clean up the building trade....

On property price sanity ... All the crap houses are adjusting their prices but still nothing of any quality appearin maybe after the Olympics and summer holidays there'll be more choice, probably more ED shabby tat...

[Mick Mac]

MrBen Wrote:

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> And my missus hasn't run off with him....yet.

She must be a woman.of taste.

[Mick Mac]

MrBen Wrote:

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> ?120-?250k+ depending on spec and footprint size

> to fully restore and convert a 4 bed terrace with

> loft and extension properly. If you want to slap

> lipstick on a pig and cut a few corners you could

> do it for perhaps ?9k minimum.

>

> Or you could do it yourself if you had the

> time....

>

I think I'll buy yours when you are finished instead. :)

Someone can lend me the money. Quids, have you won a few squids at poker recently?

[fazer71]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm getting so p'd off. Can't find anything.

The agents keep sending that new build fenwick rd hse ten times a week.

1350sq ft in that se15 location asking ?570 a sq ft I don't think so!

[JMT]

Mr Ben - "Bottom line is that it IS totally unregulated industry in the UK so you're always taking pot luck."

Not if you use an architect.

[honeybee79]

Try Peckham Rye (tho still pricey) or Nunhead instead. We bought a lovely, big 4 double bedroomed house in Nunhead for ?420k back in March. Yes, it needs some work but it's structurally sound and all works. Close to the top of Peckham Rye park, close enough to East Dulwich for us to still go to the shops and pubs there. A fraction of what you would pay for a similar house in East Dul and has a lovely, peaceful feeling to the neighbourhood.

[Cam123]

My experience of local estate agents is that some have a very limited concept of price per square foot or meter. We sold a fully renovated 3-bed terrace last year and at 130m2 many agents valued it at the standard 100m2 3-bed terrace level, meaning it was really undervalued - per square foot they were valuing it at the same level as something that needed gutting. I imagine that the Fenwick road ones are suffering this but the other way around.

[edhistory]

Perhaps they know better than to use this simplistic metric in East Dulwich?

John K

[fazer71]

edhistory Wrote:

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> Perhaps they know better than to use this

> simplistic metric in East Dulwich?

>

> John K

Simplistic price per sqm / sqft ?

As compared to 3 bed or 4 bed vague pricing ?

Sqm Sqft pricing system used in major cities all over the world including London.

It's a pricing system which allows for direct comparison and saves wasted time produces realistic pricing.

The number of shabby houses I've seen which are priced at the same level as extended renovated houses has been very frustrating.

It wouldn't be difficult to add the price per sqft figures on the particulars they manage it in Chelsea Paris even in Malaga.

In my experience the agents in ED are simple minded and very lazy.

[edhistory]

But Fazer71, it's so two-dimensional.

John K

[benmorg]

fazer71 Wrote:

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> edhistory Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Perhaps they know better than to use this

> > simplistic metric in East Dulwich?

> >

> > John K

>

> Simplistic price per sqm / sqft ?

> As compared to 3 bed or 4 bed vague pricing ?

> Sqm Sqft pricing system used in major cities all

> over the world including London.

> It's a pricing system which allows for direct

> comparison and saves wasted time produces

> realistic pricing.

> The number of shabby houses I've seen which are

> priced at the same level as extended renovated

> houses has been very frustrating.

>

> It wouldn't be difficult to add the price per sqft

> figures on the particulars they manage it in

> Chelsea Paris even in Malaga.

>

It works best in areas dominated by apartments, where most of the square footage is living space. London's Victorian houses have a lot of stairwell that confuses things. Georgian houses are even worse - all stairwell and landings with small rooms.

[KidKruger]

Pricing a domestic property based purely on sq. metreage seems slightly naive to me, it may provide some kind of mathematical basis for comparisons, but to what end I am not entirely sure.

People outside the pure investment / landlord market tend to buy with an emotional content and a consideration of aspects which a price per sq. metre does not cover, ie. how bright the rooms are, the 'feel' of the rooms, what side of the house the sun rises/sets, the way the house space is currently being used (as an indicator for how they could use it themselves).

This may explain the comment earlier in this thread that local estate agents appear to have a limited appreciation/understanding of price per square foot/metre - it's less relevant than for commercial transactions.

Businesses generally have a reqt which can be expressed with more mathematical content, based on the needs of the business and anticipated growth.

If you're using sq. metreage as your guide to 'value' you may have a frustrating experience with 'inconsistently' priced property.

[LondonMix]

That's not really a legitimate objection. Most of the houses in ED are Victorian Terraces and have similar layouts. Larger houses by sqm within this area therefore almost always have more living / bedroom space. For pricing properties within the local area its a fine metric. The issue really is deminishing utility. People aren't willing to pay that much more for a house that is larger that what they consider adequate living space. They'll pay more but not at the same price psm which is understandable.

[alice]

so how much would a big 3 double bedroom victorian semi double bay in the dunstans /friern/ upland zone be worth?

[edhistory]

I don't think the Victorians built any such houses in that area.

You'll probably find one double and two singles, or, one double, one single and a box room.

JOhn K

[alice]

so how big does a room have to be before classed as double

[fazer71]

I think 120 sqft is a double bedroom.

Dunstans dunstans /friern/ upland zone ?425 - ?525 sq ft looking at past prices.

So an 1,100 sq ft house is ?467,500 to ?577,500 depending on condition as a guide.

[alice]

this is more like 1350 so maybe a bit more?

[LondonMix]

I would say Frazer 71 is exactly right for average quality / standard layout properties. I think Friern road tends to have bigger houses and gardens in general so for a nice place the headline prices are higher but on a price psm basis fall into the upper end of that range.

Everyone is right that its not just size of the house-- size of garden, quality of layout, how modern it is makes a difference. However, for properties of similar quality in the same location the price psm data really does hold up. Buyers set the market this way even without formally doing a calculation. And while each house if unique, there is a standard / average from which each property can deviate up or down for "special / funky" features.

Also, residential developers certainly run their financial projections for schemes this way based on the quality of spec they are planning to achieve. This metric already exists in London and not just for commercial real estate transactions.

[fazer71]

alice Wrote:

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> this is more like 1350 so maybe a bit more?

yes do the numbers it's very simple basic maths Estate agents really struggle with!

1,350 sq ft X ?425 = ?573,750

1,350 sq ft X ?525 = ?708,750

The difference of ?100 = ?135,000 which is probably how much it would cost to renovate the ?573,750 to get to the same standard as the ?708,750 house.

Many don't look at it that way and they end up paying more for the ?573,750 house so ending spending more than the ?708,750 but that may be down to short term affordability.

I think it's cheaper to buy a house which has been renovated at least where the electric heating plastering is concerned and just do the cheap decorating and new kitchen.

[fazer71]

Example

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35124844.html

3 bedroom terraced house for sale ?499,999 Nutfield Road East Dulwich needs modernising.

845 sq ft = ?589 per sq ft.

at ?100 per sq ft will cost aprox ?84,500 but the smaller the house the more per sq ft to renovate.

So will it be worth ?583,500 after spending the money?

I think there was one fully updated sold at ?560,000?

By the time you add the stamp duty and all the agro??

I'd rather buy the one at ?560,000.

It's all subjective and once my GF gets involved then I'm probably going to be driven by her more than the price.