ED house prices: sanity check please

[LondonMix]

willma Wrote:

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> LondonMix Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > A narrower and narrower group of people will be

> > able to move into the area the higher prices go

> > which in my opinion will make ED a less

> > interesting place but that's the clear downside

> of

> > gentrification. The truth is, that narrowing

> has

> > already been going on for years... There are

> > still parts of South London that are as

> affordable

> > as ED was 10 years ago before the schools

> improved

> > and the place smartened up. You just have to be

> a

> > brave first mover...

>

>

> I sold my flat in ED recently and decided to buy a

> house in Penge. A bit of a risk and not as nice as

> ED but it was the only area that was affordable

> for me to buy a house. Who knows though, perhaps

> it will be a desirable place to live one day.

Penge has got the East London line right? Everyone in London (save the multi-millionaires) have to figure out their priorities for their families and decide what they will compromise on: size of home, length of commute, etc. We all want the same thing- a safe home, not too far from work that will provide good and convenient educational opportunities for our children. Within our budgets we all try to maximise these things the best we can. If you and your family are happy then don't sweat it. Others who have the same values and priorities as you will undoubtedly move to the area and form a like-minded community. We are all doing the best we can!

[????]

Has anyone seen Ted? He popped out to the garden a couple of hours ago to admire my roses.

[dulwichgirl2]

I think he is attacking the garden with relish and shears.

Fazer, I know I know, albeit at a different end of the market. People will look elsewhere and then the agents will be sorry and scrabbling around trying to justify the small terraces etc. that currently they arrogantly dangle before us.

[doubledutch]

I think unless you go the auction route you just won't find "bargain" wrecks anywhere in London any more. Sellers are too savvy, or the estate agents know exactly how much it would take to do a place up and price it accordingly. Went to a wreck near Brockley and the estate agent was handing out the details of ANOTHER property--one on the same road that was "done up" showing how much the house would be worth if you put some "elbow grease" into it.

[fazer71]

I disagree the Agents haven?t got a clue how much it costs to update and extend a house (or they know but are told to say low bullshit figures) I spoke to one this morning and he said for ?50k I could rewire re-plumb have a loft conversion and an extension and redecorate a 3 bed house Victorian house. I said yea if I do it myself at weekend?s maybe it would cost that and be finished in twenty five years!

Idiot (but then if he had any brains would he be an estate agent?) it?s likely to be 3 to 4 times that once you include everything like rent whilst it?s all being done etc .. etc. I wouldn?t want to live in a building site.

Agents think a the crappy 80?s decor 3 bed house with a peach bathroom suite is up for ?25k less than the one next-door which has been fully updated FFS they haven?t got a clue just like the dummy buyers who think they can do it up for ?50 as they go I?ve been through it with a flat and it drove me insane and I was living at the GF?s.

As for auctions they are a minefield trying to out bid the seasoned pro who can refurbish any property for ? what it would cost you and me or is selling you a pile of trouble and bidding it up to the reserve. I?m not brave enough to buy a car at auction never mind the biggest financial asset I?m ever likely buy.

I spoke to a friend who had been trying to buy at auction a couple of years ago and she said auction are like ebay not many bargains it?s where everyone goes to sell their crap for more than its worth and the buyer pays auction fees on top.

I think I?ve got more chance of buying something through the forum than through a dippy / dodgy agent. Anyone know of a decent 3 or 4 bed terraced house up for sale pm me even if it needs doing up it?s looking like I?m going to end up going that route.

[doubledutch]

This is exactly what I'm talking about--they know it costs much more but they say a low figure to renovate to make the buyer *think* they are getting a bargain...200-250K later, they may as well have bought the done up one.

[dulwichgirl2]

Doubledutch, was the Brockley agent doing a reasonable analysis of what it would cost to do up the first house? If so, I don't think there is anything wrong with the approach? If it were clearly way too low, then it is a different story.

Any upside still in Brockley? I looked into prices per sf there as I could not believe the 800 pounds quoted in the E Standard article and it seemed it was more around the 350 per sf mark. What do people think? Good girls school (the former grammar on the hill) and boys if you can get into Askes.

[doubledutch]

Dulwichgirl2--definitely not! He thought it might take 50-75K to fix up, I'd say to get into the comparable state it would have taken 250-300K. I like Brockley--you can see there's loads of potential there, lots of great housing stock and the high street is picking up. I used to think Brockley's main street would take years to smarten up because it was so long, but there seems to be a pincer movement happening from the Crofton Park end and the station end of Brockley. Plus the community there seems verrry dedicated to its improvement--there's a group called the Brockley Cross Action Group that details all the new development that's going on--looks like the area around the station is in for a major overhaul--the refurb of the station is just the start. I definitely don't think Brockley is 800 sq ft! Not what I've seen. There are still some bargains out there--we were gutted when we missed out on a 5 story early Victorian town house for 600K near to Myatt Gardens Primary. I think it went on the day or day after it was put on the market. I think the biggest plus though is Zone 2 Overground! I use Brockley station now and the Overground means it only takes 30 minutes to get to Bond street. 30 minutes!!!

[midivydale]

Gangsta nunhead? What have you been smoking...?

[Twirly]

I'm sad to say that when I move to somewhere bigger, it'll be out of East Dulwich, as I just can't afford it.

I bought, on my own, 14 years ago, with a fairly modest salary and it was a struggle initially. Yes, I've seen a vast increase in the value of my flat, but I would dearly love to have a house with a garden, and despite there being two of us now since I got married, there is no way we can afford a house here - even when I was working in the City in admin (and I think you'll find that the "average salary" of ?90k is laughable - it's skewed by a few people earning a small fortune, whilst the majority of us were on more modest, but still very good, incomes), and my husband was earning a similar salary. (I'm currently trying to make a go of being self employed, so a salary is a long-distant dream at the moment.)

Are the houses around here really worth the prices being asked for them? I realise that the market dictates value. But is a smallish Victorian terrace with a handkerchief sized garden really good value at current prices? I don't think that my flat is really worth what I will probably end up asking for it in real terms (but I will still have to ask for it, so that I can afford to move elsewhere). It sounds to me as though the foreign money coming in is squeezing the property market so that us ordinary folks, with average salaries, struggle to live in a reasonable area - or, as in my case, move to an area, find it's nice and then get priced out of it. I shall really miss the area, but there's not much I can do about it if I want more space/a garden.

[tiddles]

crikey I'm still reeling at what was quoted as an average income - ?150 - ?170k.

sorry, obviously very out of touch!!

[fazer71]

doubledutch Wrote:

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> This is exactly what I'm talking about--they know

> it costs much more but they say a low figure to

> renovate to make the buyer *think* they are

> getting a bargain...200-250K later, they may as

> well have bought the done up one.

Exact what I am trying to avoid spending ?200-?250k for the pleasure of dealing with a bunch of rude incompetent aggressive filthy ignorant greedy untrustworthy individuals who have the cheek to call themselves professional builders!

I think it is totally worth paying ?50-?100k to avoid what we in the UK call ?tradesmen? = ?scumbags?. Even the Polish ones I had who were silly expensive left the hallway looking like a bomb site and the skip was a depressing filthy mess on the road outside for the 6 weeks it took them to renew my bathroom.

I asked them to keep it clean but they ignored me you can?t ask any of these twats to do anything as they take offence!!!!

Only in Germany have I had a good experience of dealing with builders who were clean efficient and produced excellent work expensive but worth every penny.

Trouble here is even if you pay double you will still end up with a bunch of incompetent chancers; it?s down to a mentality of zero respect for the client and for themselves.

I?m the client and I don?t want to be called MATE and I don?t want to be asked for money every five minutes for work which hasn?t been done or work which is half done.

The only people I hate more than builders are estate agents.

What does that say about property in the UK it?s insane!

And most of it is a shabby load of crap.

All down to successive governments who have failed to educate and train manual workers to be organised clean and respectful of the people who will one day pay their wages. If the technical colleges also trained them in how to deal with customers as well as how to bodge then we?d all be happy to spend money with these scum bags no wonder the economy is fooked with the majority of us not wanting to employ incompetent chave tossers who thing they should be earning ?100,000 a year!

[dulwichgirl2]

Tiddles, agreed. How depressing!

Fazer, oh dear. Hope you find someone/a house that works for you.

Doubledutch, interesting. I wonder how big it was. 600k here would buy you 1200f2. I guesstimate that in Brockley, you would have got at least 1500 if not 1800 f2. I would be interested to know more.

[????]

fazer = man whose ex ran off with Polish builder

[*Bob*]

If you feel that strongly, Fazer, you should name them before somebody else gets the same treatment.

It daft to condemn the entire bulding trade because of a bad experience though. There's are people on here who have been happy to recommend their builders after a good experience.

[fazer71]

I've used quite a few over the years they have all been a nightmare in one way or other.

Even the expensive polish ones, who were recommended.

Much like estate agents they were all the thick kids at school.

And there is no governing body who oversees the quality of work.

The worst thing is the customer experience is shocking it's them doing you a favour even though you're paying them.

If you compare it to buying a new car you'd be the lne doing the pdi and washing your new car yourself and probably be the one getting the spammers out to fix your own warranty problems.

Fact is dealing with any builders is a nightmare...

Because the majority of builders are pretty much everything which is bad. As I've said above greedy arrogant filthy rude aggressive and untrustworthy.

[doubledutch]

dulwichgirl--it was this one: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34326115.html

Now who knows, maybe it had some major issue that the owner knows and only the survey would reveal, but this seems keenly priced compared to other houses in brockley.

[*Bob*]

I don't recognise your 'universal' description from our experience of having building work done.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

I'm sure many others would agree.

[dulwichgirl2]

I am getting obsessed with prop porn.

Thank you for adding to the collection doubledutch.

So, 600k - which is, let's not forget, a vast amount of money - for 1850f2.

324 per sq foot.

Good architecture: I personally prefer that to the Victorian terraces though I recognise their huge utility as family homes.

It looks slightly tired but not exhausted - is that fair?

It's only under offer anyway and said offers over 600 which I always think is really saying, "please may i have more but would settle for 600." A bit silly of sellers, I think.

Anyway, good luck Doubledutch.

[fazer71]

Must all be in my imagination I'm potty to be considering something which has all been done.

Done = get it cheap

DIY = pay a mad price so I can spend another mad ammount to make it nice....

Insane ....

Oh yea loads of people love dealing with builders in their homes it's one of life's most pleasurable activities.

R U part of Bonkers n Co ..... clients ltd

*Bob* Wrote:

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> I don't recognise your 'universal' description

> from our experience of having building work done.

>

> Quite the opposite, in fact.

>

>

> I'm sure many others would agree.

[????]

fazer = classic passive-aggressive middle class warrior who is genuinely worried about his ability in the sack becuase he doesn't know how to use a hammer properly...nice as pie to the many builders he has hired over the years in his role as worldly property developer...

[*Bob*]

fazer71 Wrote:

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> Must all be in my imagination I'm potty to be

> considering something which has all been done.

> Done = get it cheap

> DIY = pay a mad price so I can spend another mad

> ammount to make it nice....

> Insane ....

This is meaningless nonsense. Is this the level of communication you were attempting with your builders?

No wonder it went pear-shaped.

[fazer71]

Level of comunication was more like.

?Please put the tiles on the wall level and without ridges between each of them.

You know mate like you see in Spain when you?re on holiday.?

Result =

Tiles all over the place in almost every bathroom in the uk shabby shite ?

Or ?please keep the hallway clear and all the rubbish in the skip!

Result =

Hallway scrapes all over the walls front door dented plaseteboard oll over the pavement and all round the skip.

Or ?that?s agreed then it?s ?5,000 fitted and that?s what I?ll be paying you?

Result=

Sorry mate we took longer than we though and those kitchen door arrived scratched like that and the sink had a dent in it and oh yea we need ?1,000 for the agro all that has been thanks mate ?.. if you don?t pay we?ll leave a lod of shit in your front garden?.

Anyone had similar experiences ?????

[MrBen]

I'm about as deep into it as you can get. A complete renovation of a 4 bed ED terrace. By that I mean stripping back to the joists, raising chimney breasts, new extension, loft conversion, new roof. With 4 weeks to go it's been amazingly easy. Our Polish guys are living up to the cliche - everything has been done on time, quality higher than expected and it's been the tidiest site I've seen and when there are problems they just get on with the most cost effective solution (and most times haven't charged more than cost). The main problem is most folk don't realise what it actually costs to get stuff done properly. Foundations that meet building regs, proper insulation, drainage, DPC's etc - all have their short cuts or you can invest in doing it right.

Bottom line is that it IS totally unregulated industry in the UK so you're always taking pot luck. We got ?50k variation in quotes which tells you a lot. Build standards in Germany and Switzerland ARE way higher, there's more generally a better work ethic and more craftsmanship all round.

[MrBen]

And my missus hasn't run off with him....yet...