Your opinion?

[tallulah71]

I rarely challenge people because I'm basically a bit of a wuss and dislike confontation intensely. But this is something which really hacks me off...

I walked past a couple who wound down the window in their parked car and threw their finished McDonalds packaging onto the road. I walked over and said through the closed window, "excuse me I think you dropped something". he shrugged and said, "so what?"...there followed a bit of chat about this being my Road, and how there are bins and how horrid is is to dump rubbish etc etc..."So this is your Road? Is this your house?" he said. "No, I live further down but it's not nice for the people who do live there is it? Don't you have bins where you come from?" (He had a very thick foreign accent). At this he got out and walked over to me pointing and said, "What do you mean by that? You better watch your mouth - I'm gonna thump you". I walked away and watched him as he picked up the rubbish and threw it into the alleyway beside Dawson's Heights, where he later walked in with his bags.

I know I shouldn't have said what I said to him - it's pretty immature and bound to cause a reaction of sorts, but he really disgusted me. Is any of that reportable? Or should I just forget about it? (and write something rude in the dirt on his car).

[uncleglen]

The almost same thing happened to me except the 'perps' were builders and I picked up their discarded rubbish and gave it back to them through their van window without thinking of the consequences. They were very apologetic and took it away with them (they were English) Good manners are a matter of upbringing really so obviously the scum you came across were dragged up. You were very brave but like me you probably acted out of shock!

[beebee]

I think you were absolutely spot on and the bloke sounds like a complete tool. I admire you for taking a stand as i hate to admit i probably would not have been so pro-active.

[paragon]

I think you lost the moral high ground when you said "Don't you have bins where you come from?"

[tallulah71]

paragon Wrote:

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> I think you lost the moral high ground when you

> said "Don't you have bins where you come from?"

because....?

[paragon]

Sarcastic comment with potentially sinister undertones depending on how you interpret it or deliver it.

No excuse for his response to you at all which was ridiculous but I don't think you helped the situation with that comment.

[PeckhamRose]

It's not much different to "Were you born in a barn?"

[silverfox]

" I know I shouldn't have said what I said to him..."

Not only are you correct in your reaction, if it wasn't for brave people like yourself anarchy would reign.

Well done (even if not appreciated by badly brought up litter lout)

[silverfox]

paragon Wrote:

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> I think you lost the moral high ground when you

> said "Don't you have bins where you come from?"

Further to Tallulah71's post, what moral high ground are you speaking of paragon?

There is no moral high ground - morality has bugger all to to with it. These people have no concept of civic responsibility because they have been dragged up.

Many years ago I lived in Tottenham (for example) and regularly saw mothers buy children ice lollies, tear the wrapper of them and throw the wrapper on the floor. These children will now be about 25 years old. If they had such examples from their mothers what can we expect from them now (and the lessons they will pass down to their children)?

Paragon and PeckhamRose, you are both half-wits to come out with such (Knee-jerk) PC nonsense

[paragon]

Silverfox - she asked for opinions. Which I have given.

I think Tallulah did the right thing in telling the person about picking up litter.

However I don't think that comment she made that I quoted was productive and clearly resulted in further degeneration of the conversation. If you tell someone off in public there will be two outcomes

1. They are embarrassed and apologise

2. They argue with you

In situation 2. I doubt you are going to be able to rationalise with the person. So it is probably best to walk away.

There was nothing knee-jerk about the response.

[silverfox]

Fair enough paragon, I now understand that you were not being supercilious. I apologise for my unfair criticism.

However, I would question whether there is actually a rational way to communicate with such louts.

[Alan Medic]

I think you misunderstood PR also, Mr.Fox.

[Otta]

The problem with the "where you come from" comment is that he might have reacted badly. Other than that, good work.

[DulwichFox]

People throwing their Garbage on the street is just plain ignorance.

These people do not do it intentionally. They do it automatically. Without thinking. Like Driving.

Expecting Some people to dispose of their rubbish in a bin is like expecting a Bear to C**P in a Toilet.

Fox

[silverfox]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> I think you misunderstood PR also, Mr.Fox.

Yes Alan, I think you are correct. Sorry PeckhamRose.

I'm not sure what the answer is if you can't reason with these people or shame them. I note that wardens issuing instant fines hasn't gone down well in parts of Wales with the wardens being accused of being on commission.

[Jah Lush]

Well done. I can't stand litter louts either.

[woodrot]

many macho types really hate being spoken to on such terms by women.

He is obviously an idiot though - he threatens you, yet you know where he lives and what shitbox he drives - a moron

[ianr]

If you believe in education and can deal with their guessing that it was from you, you could leave copies of all or parts of http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200089/street_cleaning/417/litter_and_street_cleaning or http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200178/environmental_crime/773/fixed_penalty_noticesfines under their wipers.

[alice]

you started an argument with a stranger

forget about it

[Annette Curtain]

You did the right thing and there's nothing wrong with what you said

I said virtually the same thing to a woman who was unwrapping her kids sweets and slinging the wrappers straight on the floor at the bus stop

"No wonder this place looks like such a s*it hole with people like you living round here"

She was quick to jump on my comment, trying to turn it into race issue, rather than accept that she was dropping litter "illegally"

So I added

"Dropping litter is illegal; in England that's a crime, plus you're standing right next to a bin, that's sheer blinkin laziness. Colour, race, creed doesn't come into it"

She hated it

Trouble is, these lazy litter dropping idiots hate to be pulled up

I'd also report the incident to the Police. He threatened you with a physical assault

Nette

[civilservant]

I agree! You did the right thing.

If people challenged this kind of thing more often, then litter louts might feel less able to talk back, threaten etc.

Race etc has nothing to do with it - I've seen all sorts drop litter, if they feel they can get away with it. e.g. young woman on the Tube finishes can of Coke and choccie bar - presumably her breakfast - and leaves can and wrapper on the seat when she gets up. I point out her litter, she replies "I am not a cleaner" and flounces off...

[tallulah71]

alice Wrote:

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> you started an argument with a stranger

>

> forget about it

No, I didn't. I asked really politely for him to pick up his rubbish which he took a massive objection to. It then descended into a very short-lived exchange of insults. I am not in the habit of picking fights with people. I'm very broad minded, fairly liberal and reasonably well-educated...I was offensive to this guy on this occasion because, rightly or wrongly, I felt he deserved it. I'm not proud. But I do hate ignorance - he was ignorant. I never mentioned his race - and I don't think I was racially offensive. I will certainly print out those flyers, although what good it'll do...so thanks to everyone for your opinions. I know where he lives, not the other way around.