Council to destroy wood in East Dulwich

[edborders]

Will we regret destroying the woods of East Dulwich? The Council is to vote on 22nd June are destroy acres of lovely wood in Camberwell Old Cemetery - the size of 3300 graves - a huge area - for ugly ugly graves.

I wrote about it.

http://lewisschaffer.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/cutting-down-the-new-forest/

[bsand]

We need to stop dying in these vast numbers and freeze childbirths - then saving the woods would be easy.

[panda boy]

Thanks for highlighting this edborders.

I live opposite the cemetary and would be horrified if they rip up the woods.

I can't quite understand how, despite living opposite, i've recieved no official word of this.

Does anyone have any experience of how to deal with the council on this kind of thing?

I personally, and the wide variety of wildlife that lives there, would be devastated if this went ahead.

[bsand]

Farmers have a good way of making a point to their local councisl..

[healey]

Bsand,

Or promote cremation. Burial grounds are a waste of space.

[Amelie]

One for James Barber?

[DulwichFox]

Is Camberwell Old Cemetary Southwark or Lewisham Council ??

Fox..

[nunhead_man]

This one ...........

www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200032/deaths_funerals_and_cremations/185/cemeteries/2

[kiera]

The cemetery is in Southwark's Peckham Rye Community Council Ward, which is not James Barber's ward. Renata Hamvas is one of the councillors.

[Otta]

Burials in inner city areas are just a stupid idea. Who gets buried these days anyway?

[LeahP]

Heard of the DDD rule when it comes to felling trees? If a tree is:

Dead

Diseased

Damaged

and in a public place then by law it needs to come down.

If this rule doesn't apply here then this is tragic news :(

The negative impact that this will have on the ecology and conservation of the area will be mammoth. So sad.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi All, two different parts of the cemetery have been muddled up in this report. The elevation of the burial area is near Wood Vale. Gravestones are not going to be disturbed. A tree survey has been carried out and the majority of larger trees (healthy ones are to remain) and some smaller ones are to have burials around them in that portion of Camberwell Old Cemetery. There will be extensive planting of new trees too, so there will be more trees than at the outset with the majority of mature ones remaining (a few were found to have structural/heath problems when the survey was done). I have visited the site, it is certainly not a wood! It is the strip of land on the Wood Vale side of the Cemetery. It has been used for burial in the past, but there are no gravestones, the land is being elevated around the trees so that burials can be carried out without disturbing the deeper communal graves. There is another area of the Cemetery being discussed at the moment, after this area, towards Wood Vale is full, that is towards the north of the cemetery. There the ground level had already been raised over previous graves for doing burials in some time ago. This is why the land there is higher than surrounding areas (It was prepared for burials and then forgotten). I haven't heard anything about tree felling in this area, the area I saw, was elevated and grass rather than a woodland and within the cemetery, I will be attending a meeting this week when I should find out more. This area is not to be used imminently. With the reuse of these previously used sites there is sufficient burial space for around the next 30 years if the rate of burial v cremation remains then same. If southwark residents decide to no longer bury their deceased loved ones and all opt for cremation,this second area will never be used. The current rate of burial v cremation is around 30% burial to 70% cremation, this rate has remained stable for the last couple of years, but this could change.

Renata

[edborders]

Is this true? The space Renata mentions is only for about 300 burials - a drop in the Southwark bucket. Aren't there proposals afoot to find burial room for 5000? Where will the room for 5000 (!) burials come from? From our open and wooded areas of the Cemeteries.

Will our cemeteries be completely destroyed? Did I read they want to expand burials in Nunhead Cemetery?

We need to completely reconsider inner-London burials. Land is too scarce to waste it on the dead.

Also -

It is shocking that Southwark Council even considered (and I believe still considers) using Southwark sports fields for burials. I know Renata doesn't condone that. To destroy our children's future for the soon-to-be-ignored dead is completely amoral and must be rejected forever. I posted about this today:

http://lewisschaffer.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/how-camberwell-old-cemetery-wood-was-lost/

With affection to Renata and other our councillors. x Lewis Schaffer

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Lewis,

There are two areas in Camberwell Old Cemetery, one grassy area with ground raised years ago, and the area towards Wood Vale. Also some patches of filling in elsewhere. Some space also in Camberwell New Cemetery (not the REC!) and a bit of space in Nunhead Cemetery in the Muslim Area. Southwark is not and has not been considering a Southwark Sports Field For Burials. The Rec is within the grounds of Camberwell New Cemetery and the land was originally purchased for burials. I think Lewis that you are aware that a consultation was carried out, and as a consequence (and with support from me, Victoria Mills and Gavin Edwards) the Rec was designated as option of last resort.

I think that many residents may not agree with your statement "soon-to-be-ignored dead" about their deceased loved ones.

Renata

edited for typos

[edborders]

1. The Rec is open area where children (and adults) play sports. How could the council even CONSIDER using this area? It doesn't matter what the land was bought for 100 years ago - needs and priorities change. That option should not be an 'option'. Do you agree that to remove the playfield would be an abomination and should not be mentioned EVER AGAIN?

2. Right now the Council is felling 24 trees but the plan is to make 5000 spaces available. Is that not true? Where is that land coming from? To cut down living trees to bury the dead is wrong.

3. What is the Council doing to reduce burials? Is there any plan? We are the custodians of the lungs of London.

Thank you for responding. You are an incredible councillor, Renata. I think that any area would be proud to have someone as committed and knowledgeable as you representing it.

my blog: http://lewisschaffer.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/cutting-down-the-new-forest/#comment-427

[uncleglen]

I suppose everyone must know that in some religious faiths , burial is the prescribed method of disposal (without mentioning anyone's methods of contraception- or not.)

[mynamehere]

Instead of burying people under stone slabs... why not plant a tree and have their name on the tree. You could bury them under the tree or not as you liked. By definition the dead would be a living forest of memory.

and / or

Take up the grave stones and make walls of memory out of them. The idea muted to bury grave stones under a metre of earth ... !

[James Barber]

Hi edborders,

I think it extremely unfortunate and wasteful that a rec site in Lewisham was not only bought but maintained by Southwark rate payers for 100+ years.

Southwark should sell the site to Lewisham Council with a covenant about it remaining a sports grounds into perpetuity.

With the planned growth in London's population of over 1 million residents its even more of an imperative to ensure we keep all the open space we have such as this recreatino ground.

Talking to funeral undertakers they're clear that the councils crematorium could be run significantly cheaper with better experiences for grieving families. This opportunity should be used to lower charges and for those that can use this making it more attractive.

They also suggested that the grave spacing has been appallingly inefficient meaning much more land has and is being used for each grave.

Burial costs are exlcusively used to cover current operational costs. The council needs to create a fund that each burial contributes into to cover the maintenance costs into perpertuity. Otherwise we get cemeteries uncared for or cost tax payers in the future large sums to fix.

The council also plan to only sell burial plots for 25 years. I'd counter that if grave reuse has to occur then we have lots over 100 years of age.

For the first time ever I've also had case work this year from people with religious beliefs who must have quick burials but being given dates weeks away. OVerall the service doesn't sem responsive to residents needs.

[edborders]

It is right to kill a tree to bury a dead body?

The Council let the graves go to seed and now we have the most wonderful Camberwell Old Cemetery Wood.

Will we regret cutting down a wood because it was once used for burials?

What can we do save our wood? More details below.

[lewisschaffer.wordpress.com]

[boyohboy]

I am disgusted by some of the comments posted by the offending 'edborders'... My parents are buried in Camberwell Old Cemetery and are neither ignored nor forgotten. It affords me considerable comfort to be able to visit their last resting place when I wish to. I agree with the considerate councillor, Renata, who states that many do not agree with 'edborders' sentiments. I am a lifelong ED resident and intend to stay so - how long has he turned up for? I may even soon book my own burial plot in the cemetery as it is not up to others to declare how my body should be disposed of. Very angry indeed...

[edborders]

Surely we can find a way to minimize the number of burials in our cemeteries so that we can save our beautiful wooded and open spaces?

Lewis Schaffer, resident of Southwark for 12 years.

My post on the subject: Will we regret cutting down the new forests of Southwark?

[boyohboy]

Why? So that your children 'can learn to read by visiting the tombstones'? If people hadn't so 'inconsiderately' buried their dead then there wouldn't be any tombstones to look at. Get real and don't be so horribly hypocritical.

[James Barber]

Thought this Press Release based on Freedom Of Information requests was interesting by a councillor colleague - for the last two years we've been losing street trees. 70 from the Dulwich area alone.

[mynamehere]

2010 : EDF, same conversation about trees

Are the councillors responsible for trees in 2010 still responsible in 2012?

[James Barber]

Up to May 2010 Lib Dem councillors in charge of street trees and the council generally. Labour one the local elections then and have been in charge since - specifically cllr [email protected]