Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless

[DulwichFox]

Noted.

[Willard]

I rarely carry cash these days, ever since contact less pay came in I just carry cards in my wallet. And since apple pay came in I rarely even carry a wallet these days.

Anyway, just my 10 pence worth....

[micromacromonkey]

Siduhe Wrote:

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> If you're someone (like me) who has a bank

> account, a regular salary or pension and who

> doesn't think much about buying a coffee on the

> way to work every day, this undoubtedly seems like

> a great, convenient idea.

>

> However, alongside of the practical issues for the

> elderly or people who don't work through illness -

> it's the overall signal this sends which I am

> uncomfortable with. Going cashless signals to

> people who rely on cash, and are almost certainly

> economically vulnerable, that "their kind" aren't

> welcome to share these spaces. Put yourself in the

> position of a parent who doesn't have any spare

> cash, and for whom a once a week treat for their

> kids at the park cafe is the single luxury they

> allow themselves to keep within budget - there are

> plenty of people for whom this is a day to day

> reality. I count myself incredibly fortunate that

> I'm not one of them, but it's totally wrong to

> ignore that in the name of convenience.

>

> This move basically tells anyone who is unbanked

> that they are not as welcome to use our public

> spaces and council run amenities, when they are

> exactly the kind of people who need the support

> most. In the US, a few cities have enacted laws

> that prevent restaurants from going cashless for

> exactly this reason.

> https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/03/cashless-ca

> sh-free-ban-bill-new-york-retail-discrimination/58

> 4203

Don't you also need a bank account to receive benefits now? There must be fewer and fewer people who do not have one. I guess a few of those could be without a contactless card. I used to have some sort of rubbish non-switch card switch card once, but I could still use it to buy stuff.

[Penguin68]

Although under 18s can now have debit cards - considering how many are mugged for e.g. phones I wouldn't want to risk a child having a card on them unaccompanied, which means that they will be restricted from buying stuff which, as a child myself (I can just remember that far back) I used to do - ice creams, pop and sweets. Independently buying small value items is sort-of part of what growing up's about. This is exactly the sort of outlet where that should be 'safe'.

[Siduhe]

Don't you also need a bank account to receive benefits now? There must be fewer and fewer people who do not have one. I guess a few of those could be without a contactless card. I used to have some sort of rubbish non-switch card switch card once, but I could still use it to buy stuff.

DWP certainly prefer to make a payment into a bank account, an account with a credit union or a prepaid card which can be reloaded to receive the majority of benefits now that universal credit has been rolled out. Pre-paid cards generally aren't contactless but you can use them like a normal debit card.

While most basic bank accounts or credit union accounts offer debit cards as part of the general package, the decision whether to issue one is an individual decision of the bank for any individual account, and the general rule of thumb is the less financially stable you are, the less likely you are to be offered a debit card even on a basic bank account, just a cashcard, so people end up using the account to pay bills via direct debit and taking out cash. It's a real failing (IMHO) of the drafting of the regulations which require the largest current account providers in the UK to offer fee-free basic bank accounts to customers who are either unbanked or who are ineligible for a standard current account.

Those people who can't even get a basic bank account (often because they are deemed too high risk because of previous financial difficulties or fraud) have to use something called the Payment Exceptions Service which is a voucher based system.

[DulwichFox]

Lots of people play sports on the Common.

They may well not want to leave Phones and cards unattended whilst they are playing

and choose instead to carry small amounts of cash to buy a drink afterwards.

[micromacromonkey]

Siduhe Wrote:

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>

> DWP certainly prefer to make a payment into a bank

> account, an account with a credit union or a

> prepaid card which can be reloaded to receive the

> majority of benefits now that universal credit has

> been rolled out. Pre-paid cards generally aren't

> contactless but you can use them like a normal

> debit card.

>

> While most basic bank accounts or credit union

> accounts offer debit cards as part of the general

> package, the decision whether to issue one is an

> individual decision of the bank for any individual

> account, and the general rule of thumb is the less

> financially stable you are, the less likely you

> are to be offered a debit card even on a basic

> bank account, just a cashcard, so people end up

> using the account to pay bills via direct debit

> and taking out cash. It's a real failing (IMHO)

> of the drafting of the regulations which require

> the largest current account providers in the UK to

> offer fee-free basic bank accounts to customers

> who are either unbanked or who are ineligible for

> a standard current account.

>

> Those people who can't even get a basic bank

> account (often because they are deemed too high

> risk because of previous financial difficulties or

> fraud) have to use something called the Payment

> Exceptions Service which is a voucher based

> system.

Thanks, useful information.

I do take issue with the general idea that you are more likely to spend irresponsibly with a card vs cash (which is surely the implication for not giving one to 'high risk'/rubbish with money type people). Surely if you go and withdraw a load of cash and you are bad at managing it then you are more likely to spend it if you have it sitting there.

I also strongly disagree that carrying cash is somehow safer than carrying a card as someone else suggested above. If you don't have contactless then the card is much more difficult to use than cash, and if you do have contactless then as long as you notify the bank you have a good chance of getting back any money spent on it, and if you have the bank's app (or you just call them up) you can put a temporary block on it.

[Bic Basher]

It's not the only cashless park cafe. The one in Crystal Palace Park is also cashless.

[Beej]

Good grief, I haven?t used cash since 1999, Embrace the future people. 🙄

[Sue]

Beej Wrote:

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> Good grief, I haven?t used cash since 1999,

> Embrace the future people. 🙄

Perhaps read the thread before posting?

[Beej]

I did.

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Beej Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Good grief, I haven?t used cash since 1999,

> > Embrace the future people. 🙄

>

>

> Perhaps read the thread before posting?

[Sue]

Beej Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did.

>

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Beej Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Good grief, I haven?t used cash since 1999,

> > > Embrace the future people. 🙄

> >

> >

> > Perhaps read the thread before posting?

So if you read the thread, what are your thoughts about the points made in it about those who don't have a debit card?

[exdulwicher]

There's points for it either way. On the plus side, it minimises queuing (there's invariably someone in the queue rummaging in a purse going "oh, do you want the 42p, just a second..." ), it's cheaper and easier for the shop (less risk of break in for cash, no chance of an employee with sticky fingers in the till, no cash deposit fees).

But there are some negatives too - it generally means that kids can't go in there (I suppose you can argue that as a good or bad point depending on if you want a bunch of schoolkids going into a cafe!!), plenty of people don't like spending money in that way as it does make keeping track of spending harder, it means that tips are much less likely for the cafe (if you're buying a coffee & pastry/cake and pay with a tenner, you're quite likely to drop at least some of the change in a tips jar on the counter but can't do that with a card) but the worst point is that there's no consistency.

Some cafes, shops etc are card only. Some will only take card over ?10. Some won't take card at all (or they won't take certain types like no Amex, or no Apple Pay). And that can make things quite confusing for older people or non-regulars.

Near me, the cafe is card only. The chippy is cash only. I've got no real problems with either but you do need to know and go prepared.

[fishbiscuits]

exdulwicher Wrote:

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> it generally

> means that kids can't go in there (I suppose you

> can argue that as a good or bad point depending on

> if you want a bunch of schoolkids going into a cafe!!)

It's right next to the playground, why wouldn't kids want to buy an ice cream or a drink?

Yesterday I saw a couple of young girls walk away looking glum and rather embarrassed, because they couldn't pay for their their hot chocolate and cake. It got me thinking about what other people might not have cards... immigrants? The elderly and vulnerable?

[alice]

Sounds like they?ll start losing money and change it back. Yes

[Penguin68]

It could be argued (and I would) that an outlet in a public park should be obliged to support purchasers without discrimination - we now lived in a mixed economy where cash and cards are both generally accepted and should be accepted here. An outlet on the high street may choose only one exchange medium (many, because of bank and merchant issuer charges do not choose to offer credit, or even debit card facilities) - but I think that an outlet in a public park offering refreshment should be obliged by their council landlord to accept cash transactions. Not to do so, as I and others have pointed out, is to discriminate against legitimate park users.

[imasnookercue]

Im all for this really. In Peckham lots of people dont have cards and as a result there are huge queues at supermarket tills as they stand around waiting for the 1 sole till operaotr/machine that takes coins, but not actually making people aware of this so a big queue builds up behind them. This is very annoying and wastes my time.

If it were up to me, everywhere would be card only. If you dont have a bank card then you are probably quite dodgy anyway.

[cella]

Judging by your posts you may be trolling - if not then intolerant generally it appears.

[JohnL]

imasnookercue (queue :) ) is mixing it up in my experience.

You don't see queues in supermarkets to pay cash although I have stood around waiting for someone to go through 5 or 10 collected vouchers, you used to see long queues in the banks in Rye Lane to deposit cash but even that is changing.

[dresswaves]

It?s a pity the cafe isn?t more elderly friendly. I?d love to take my mum for a stroll round the park followed by a coffee & cake but not at that cafe. Mum may be 90 & need some help but she still values her independence & being able to pay for a coffee & cake is part of that. I?m sorry if it takes her a bit longer & you?re in the queue behind her but hopefully you?ll all reach that age & may appreciate a bit of tolerance & kindness.

[TE44]

I have a card you can only take money out with, that suits me. If card is lost there will be no immediate alternative. Not everyone has nor wants access to computers or has smart phones. Sorry havent read all this thread but just saying.

[JohnL]

I like cashless but ....

"During economic downturns, governments face challenges stimulating the economy by lowering interest rates, since people are likely to hoard their cash instead. This means governments and central banks have limited power, also known as the zero lower bound theory.

However, with digital payments and no cash, people would be unable to withdraw money from the financial system, meaning governments and banks could leverage greater control of the economy through monetary policy. Specifically, the implementation of a negative interest rate during economic downturns could be brought in, whereby people would pay banks to store their deposits, instead of earning interest on those deposits. This aims to stimulate more lending from banks and increased investment by businesses, as well as encouraging people to invest, lend and spend instead of amassing money."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vishalmarria/2018/12/21/what-a-cashless-society-could-mean-for-the-future/#35ea118a3263

[Azalea]

dresswaves Wrote:

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> It?s a pity the cafe isn?t more elderly friendly.

> I?d love to take my mum for a stroll round the

> park followed by a coffee & cake but not at that

> cafe. Mum may be 90 & need some help but she still

> values her independence & being able to pay for a

> coffee & cake is part of that. I?m sorry if it

> takes her a bit longer & you?re in the queue

> behind her but hopefully you?ll all reach that age

> & may appreciate a bit of tolerance & kindness.

Take your mum to the French Cafe in forest hill road after a walk. The owner is lovely. I don?t think they have gone cashless.

[TE44]

I have lost my card once inall the years i have had it. I was unable to use my account to withdraw money from the bank as i did not have photo ID. Luckily i could borrow money till my new card was sent. It made me feel extremely tied to a system that firstly can't be trusted, that seemed unable to understand my situation, relies almost soley on technology and ensures a better working of there system for the rich. If someone gets on the bus whose oyster card has run out you can no longer offer to help by paying, you can't tap your oyster twice. Yes you may go into minus with a card but it encourages a "not my problem" attitude.

Oops didnt save my edit, to say, fraud and corruption are rife in banking, last year in uk there were victims, albeit a small amount who were not reimburst. This problem runs through banking or do we have a situation where we are able to trust this system regardless of the past.

[JohnL]

TE44 Wrote:

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> I have lost my card once inall the years i have

> had it. I was unable to use my account to withdraw

> money from the bank as i did not have photo ID.

> Luckily i could borrow money till my new card was

> sent. It made me feel extremely tied to a system

> that firstly can't be trusted, that seemed unable

> to understand my situation, relies almost soley on

> technology and ensures a better working of there

> system for the rich. If someone gets on the bus

> whose oyster card has run out you can no longer

> offer to help by paying, you can't tap your oyster

> twice. Yes you may go into minus with a card but

> it encourages a "not my problem" attitude.

I lost my debit card once, took ?100 out and felt like a child all week (and ended up putting things on credit card).