New betting shop at former Woolwich

[Keef]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Ignoring the fact that they are often rammed as well (and therefore a very different proposition to betting shops)

Not sure I totally agree with that point Sean. Firstly, I know a lot of people who regularly use betting shops, they just tend for the most part to be an older generation.

Secondly, most betting shops don't have transparent windows, so how do people know who is in there unless they are going in there?

Thirdly, I used to work in one, and believe me, you only need a few regulars to keep you going. These people bet big, and often loose big because they often don't know when to quit.

[telboy]

Keef

Betting shops are now allowed to have clear windows that you can see through and many of the new ones are providing this facility with limited advertising features in the windows. Seeing into a betting office is now a lot easier. The fact some punters don't know when to quit is a problem often impacting on their familes. Big losers cause big problems for those who have to live with them. The average gambler is probably sensible playing to a budget but there are many that don't as you will probably remember from your days in a betting office.

[Keef]

Didn't know about the windows.

Everything else you say is quite right, but again, the same could eually be said for drink o drugs.

[telboy]

I agre on the drink and drugs. So far as drink is concerned blame central government. They allowed the free for all on liquor licensed premises and made the situation worse by bringing in 24 hour drinking. Hence we have so many problems in our town centres. Now they are allowing the same free for all with gambling and betting shops. Drugs - other than prescription and over the counter - are a bit different in that they are illegal per se, drinking and gambling are not. Are we going to see the same discounted type offers in betting shops as we regularly see in pubs, off licenses and supermarkets. I don't know but wouldn't mind betting we do.

[Clyde]

What odds will you give me telboy?

You can see the effects of the new liquor law now. Binge drinking, rise in under age drinking, rise in alcohol related health problems. You can measure these through crime figures and a&e figures.

If I was a betting man I would wager that in two years time there will be a rise in betting related problems ie addiction, debt etc only these effects are harder to see and quantify.

[telboy]

1/2 for starters

[telboy]

1/2 for starters but don't start a price war

[Clyde]

Will you give any concessions to lure me in? Could do with a free go on the hypnotic roulette machine then you could really hook me.

[Louisa]

How come everyone is talking about the evils of gambling and yet it's ok for brand new organic off licences and trendy bars to open up in abundance along the lane? Double standards or what!

Louisa.

[telboy]

Comes back to what I said before. Will we have all sorts of special offers to lure people in and part them from their money just like the liquor industry does. The more offices you get the more they have got to fight to retain market share. Don't know much about hypnotic roulette but I do know a lot of people lose a lot of money on the tables both real and virtual. LL was quite busy tonight but not in the bookies. No special offers advertised. Some of the bars were quitey though. Enough of them already.

[telboy]

Louisa

Just drawing parallels. The evils of drink are just as bad when abused.

[SeanMacGabhann]

have to agree on the reasoning here - all of these things were accelerating at pace long before new legislation - the legislation was partly hoped to curb the excesses. That it hasn't is not good news but it ain't the reason behind the culture

[SeanMacGabhann]

"How come everyone is talking about the evils of gambling and yet it's ok for brand new organic off licences and trendy bars to open up in abundance along the lane? Double standards or what!"

Firstly: no organic off-licenses opening on LL. One claims to be but isn't

Secondly: while both gambling and drinking to excess are BOTH evils, drinking and eating establishments at least offer the chance of convivial soc-ialising for all the family - eating and drinking with friends and family are what make us human. Gambling is just a vice

So - no double standards.

[telboy]

Sean

I totally agree. We have always had a culture of excess in this country. You can trace it back to the gin palaces of the 19th century and beyond. We will never be a cafe culture nation like the French or Italians. I concur that bars and restaurants are far more family friendly now and provide for convivial surroundings. The same cannot be said for betting shops which are mainly male dominated, though some women do use them. Children are banned. It's not that many years ago that gambling was run by illegal street bookmakers, I can certainly remember them. Funny how things evolve. The illegal street bookmakers then became the legitimate face of the industry when betting shops were first licenced. What a way to run a country. You can't control the crime so legalise it, give the criminals a licence and let them run it. 45 years on they are big business.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Sean, you patently have never been to a point-to-point. Great family/friends day out with lucious picnics, booze and part of the fun having a flutter. No vice where I'm concerned.

Ditto a day at the races is very convivial.

[Cassius]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Sean, you patently have never been to a

> point-to-point. Great family/friends day out with

> lucious picnics, booze and part of the fun having

> a flutter. No vice where I'm concerned.

>

> Ditto a day at the races is very convivial.

Although I agree with the sentiments expressed here - a betting shop is not a racetrack - no sunshine or picnics in there!

[SeanMacGabhann]

I grew up on them PGC - rural Ireland being what it is. And the horses/dog tracks are familiar territory

But I was talking about betting shops on the Lane as per Louisa's quote

[Keef]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> eating and drinking with friends and family are what make us human. Gambling is just a vice

> So - no double standards.

Massive generalisation, and total nonsense I'm afraid. Every betting shop will have it's regulars just like the pubs. Often these men (more often than not) will sit together in a cafe and sort their bets, they'll then go and put their bets on. They may then go to a pub to watch the races, and will then go back to collect their winnings.

I have met several betters in the past who have said to me "who's the mug, me or you. You go and spend ?20 in the pub and never see it again. I let myself spend ?20 on betting because I enjoy it, and have budgeted for it, and I have a chance of seeing my money back".

Some people just do it as a hobby, and it is a social thing for them.

It really isn't the seedy underbelly of society that everyone makes it out to be.

[telboy]

Keef

I agree with you that betting offices today are not the seedy underbelly of society anymore. The vast majority are now run by good legitimate businesses. The issue of a new betting ofice for LL was originally raised by Alba back in December with the question, "How can we stop it". Reading the postings there are mixed views and it would be interesting to see how strong the feeling is one way or the other. How about a quick simple poll. YES for I want it, NO for I don't want it or DC for don't care.

I don't have strong views either way.

[Keef]

DC, Although would be tempted to go YES just to annoy the people that don't want it simply because it's not in keeping with their twee ideal of Lordship Lane.

[lozzyloz]

Some people just do it as a hobby, and it is a social thing for them.

I'm not anti gambling per se, but I am biased against the proliferation of gambling opportunities (both on and off-line) simply because my childhood (and my siblings) was wrecked by a father with a serious gambling addiction.

Everytime I look inside a betting office it seems to be mostly full of the very people who can ill afford to gamble (bit like a Wetherspoons at 10.30 am). How many of those seriously see it as a hobby? How many of them are vulnerable to the false dream of getting rich quick? At casino's I see so many that are glued to a machine or a table night after night. Tell me that's not a problem. Now casino's are actively upgrading the restaurants and entertainment area to make them non gambler friendly. In other words to suck in more punters for the impulse gamble.

All of this is fine if the safeguards are there to protect the vulnerable and their families. I'm not convinced this is the case.

I should just state that I do occasionally gamble on the horses, at a casino, the dogs, poker and backgammon.

[????]

So, in conclusion...gambling offends the sensibilities of the petit bourgeois

[SeanMacGabhann]

???? - if that's your summary having had people talk about the anguish caused by gambling on real families, as well as some of the other comments on her, then it's an opinion we can safely disregard

[Cassius]

???? Wrote:

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> So, in conclusion...gambling offends the

> sensibilities of the petit bourgeois

Gambling is a form of behaviour that is undertaken by all classes. Some of the aristocracy of the 18th century lost their fortunes through their gambling. It does not matter who gambles as long as it is under control. Loss of dignity/house/family/livelihood is a tragedy no matter to whom it happens.

[Clyde]

I have seen the dangers of this industry, a fool and his money are easily parted irrespective of their social standing, and they all need the same protection.

You can have too much of a good thing. In 2 years time posts on this forum could be "my teenager is addicted to electronic roulette machines." Or "my partner has gambled away the equity in the house during the housing cash of 2k8" and we can say "oh what a shame, maybe we should have done something about the 5th betting office application."