Lordship Lane in the 1930's

[triard]

Hi Just found this site. I am trying to find out the exact location of Lockharts toy shop in Lordship Lane as I understand that there was a bank more or less opposite where my Grandmother worked. The Bank Manager at that time was Mr Young and my father thinks that it was on a corner and had a long garden behind it. Would be grateful if anyone could help me.

[computedshorty]

Lockharts 137/ 139 Lordship Lane

Bank now HSB corner of Ashbourn Grove

or two Banks at Barry Road and Lordship Lane Junction.

[triard]

Thank you for that info. I have been onto Google maps and sat Dad in front of the computer and he thought that it was the HSBC bank as it now is. Do you have any idea what it might have been called in the 1930's?

Dad said that Mr Young and his wife lived above the bank and that when they went on holiday, my Gran, Dad and one of his brothers used to stay in the flat to 'caretake' it. Dad although a young boy used to cut the grass there too. My Grandmother was deemed as very trustworthy as she had her own keys and used to clean both the bank and the house. Quite an honour in those days for someone like her.

Dad remembered Mrs Young buying him a bow and arrow from Lockharts as a present and he said that he used to yearn for an aeroplane they had in there which he never got!

Thanks so much for coming back so quickly. You have made our day

[kiera]

My mother says that Lockharts had two shops in Lordship Lane - Mr Lockhart ran the one higher up, on the side of the odd numbers, but the one nearest to the Barclays and (then) Midland Bank, was Mrs Lockhart's shop, which was on the same side of the road as the banks and just a few doors away from them -roughly opposite Northcross Road. HSBC is 66 Lordship Lane and Barclays is on the other corner of Ashbourne Grove now.

[triard]

Thanks Kiera. I will pass that info on to Dad in the morning.

~ but the one nearest to the Barclays and (then) Midland Bank~ just a little confused by what you mean by this. Am I right in thinking that HSBC was the Midland Bank?

[geneie]

Yes, the Midland was what it was called... I only remember one Lockhart's, which was Mrs Lockhart's, but I can only talk about 20 years later than 1930...

[computedshorty]

The Lockharts Shops were adjoining at 137/139 Lordship Lane and on the other side of the road on the facing side but a few blocks up, the Midland Bank was on the corner of Ashbourn Grove.

I remember that the shops were painted brown.

The question asked was " Lordship Lane in the 1930's " I can tell you that eight years of the 1930's I was in fact there and can remember that I was often taken into the shops there.

The rear garden of the bank was alongside Ashbourn Grove, but now not a garden, just used for parking.

[triard]

Thanks computedshorty. You have really cheered up my Dad today by confirming his thoughts and to think that someone of around his age (he is 84) can still remember and know things about the area round which he grew up. This has now given him a lot more thoughts about when he was growing up and what he saw around the area like the Booth statues at Denmark Hill.

Everyone's help has been much appreciated

[computedshorty]

Salvation Army Memorial at Champion Hill,

Your Dad is jusr below the wall.

[triard]

Ah, so even though it is by Denmark Hill Station, you called that part Champion Hill? Learning a lot. Do you have any more items of interest for me that he might remember? I know that his Dad was a greengrocer and his horse used to graze on part of Goose Green when he finished his round early enough then before his Dad could get comfortably on the cart the horse would be haring off back to his stables! Think they also used to have some of the cut grass from there for the horse to eat back in the stables. You are a mine of knowledge.

[computedshorty]

My mistake Champion Hill is the rear entrance, the front is in Champion Park facing the Denmark Hill station.

There used to be a Pub on the corner called the Fox on the Hill, then it got a new name Fox under the Hill.

If you can tell me where the horse was kept I might know it, the only place that springs to mind is Whately Road, corner of Ulverscroft Road.

The horse would have had its drink from the Granit Stone Metroplitain Horse Trough outside the East Dulwich Hotel.

I certainly had my drink form the end where you got your drink, you used a Puter cup on a chain.

The dogs could drink from a lower level through.

[triard]

Dad can't remember the Fox on the Hill presumably as he was too young and I don't think his family frequented pubs. He can't remember where the horse was stabled but at that time they lived in Peckham/camberwell but he can remember that horse trough and other various places where you could drink from the cup on a chain!

I find it so fascinating looking back into the past and seeing what places used to be like and how people lived. In some respects we are luckier now but in other ways life was slower and less complicated.

[computedshorty]

Something I remember was that very little was in any colour, just the red Trams and Buses, and phone boxes and letter post boxes.

There was also the Blue Police Phone boxes and the little blue police box on a pole.

Every thing was dull with very little street lighting because of the war, then there was the dense fog caused by the house coal fires.

There was no need to travel far as all you needed was close by.

Lordship Lane had street lights susspended from two posts one each side of the road so that the light was positioned in the middle of the road, these were quite large with a glass shade, we liked watching the men come and incert a handle into the socket and wind the lamp from the center of the road then down to the bottom of the pole to be cleaned.

The Trams ran in two recessed grove rails, the third rail was not a rail really it was a slot that the electric Plough Pick collected the electricity up, this moved along hanging down in the slot as the tram moved, I often wondered where the rain went when it ran down the slot.

There was a time when one of the boys worked loose an iron rod from the church railings on the corner of Goodrich Road and dropped it down the electric grove, there was an almighty blue flash, the lad did not get eletrocuted thankfully, we did not see any trams for hours, then workmen came and removed the rod.

We watched and asked what they were doing very innorcently, I wonder if they ever replaced that rod in the church railings? I remember where it was removed from the second section in Goodrich Road it was the first in that section.

That was the most colour I had seen for years.

I have just looked on Google maps, it is replaced but looks like the " Flure De Lis " point is distorted.

[dollydaydream]

Hello triard,

Someone mentioned Barclays was where Midland bank once was.

Barclays bank is on one corner and as you cross the side road Ashbourn Grove HSBC bank is on the next corner previously Midland Bank

HSBC took over Midland Bank. So Midland Bank was not on the site of Barclays Bank.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

[computedshorty]

I wonder if anybody remembers the long row of shops called Trundles? with the large scrolling letters of the name above the shops, it was a Clothing and Millenry store, you could buy anything made of cloth or associated with it.

These were nearly facing Ashbourne Grove just where the road bends a bit.

[computedshorty]

More memories

When we think back, we mostly think of places or the people who were there then.

I have a memory of our family dining room, a large mahogany table with ornamental legs and a insert that was placed in the middle to extend it by two foot, then it measured ten foot by six foot.

This enabled dad to sit at the head of the table in his wooden chair with arms, on the left sat we three boys, on the right sat great aunt Alice, and two sisters.

Things changed there was the arrival of twins, a girl that sat in the girls side, the boy at the foot with mum, as there was no more room on the boys side, it was handy for mum to feed the baby girl, the baby boy was next to me so I had to keep an eye on him and help him to feed.

All of ten of us sat on wooden chairs even mum, that was when she got the food in front of each of us on the table, nobody was allowed to start before she sat down, and nobody left until the last had finished.

On the winter days the only heat was from the cast iron Range where on top black soot coated kettles boiled all day, if the front was open then we felt some heat.

Above the fireplace was the mantle shelf with a fancy pelmet curtain hanging from it, made of a black material as it soon got soot stained.

The pair of Gas brackets were above the mantle shelf, a swan neck pipe with a tap to turn it on then the glass shade, this had to be removed to fit the mantle that when fitted looked like a knitted piece of cloth shaped like a thimble very soft, but when fitted and lighted became very brittle and could easily be broken when lighting it, a lighted wax taper was the best way of getting to it under the glass shade, the light vas very yellow at times it changed to a light green, and hissed and often went out mostly when neighbours lit up their gas. If anybody passed in front of the gas lamps they cast a shadow and left you in the dark.

If I could take my place today at that table eight of the seats would now be unoccupied, now just myself and my sister the twin now a elderly lady of seventy three, her twin brother now also diseased, I did get to his funeral last Friday, but after it had finished, that was down to my infirmity, I went into the Crematorium just as the mourners came out, I spoke to the lady vicar and said I had missed the service, she said would I like to see Brian?s coffin, she led me to where it had been, now it was below out of sight, she asked if she could say a prayer, I could hardly answer just said no thank you and came away.

Things change as we get older, places alter or get demolished and new building get built, people die and others take their place, this is a gradual process and we do not realise just how much the change is.

Memory is a great thing to have, that is if it is accurate, I think mine is pretty near.

I wonder what my father would remember if he were here, aged at one hundred and twenty eight?

[treehugger]

Very touching, computedshorty, thanks for sharing.

[Lynne]

if anyone wants info on old East Dulwich and can visit the area, may I recomend the Local Studies Library? Friendly helpful staff, records about anything and everything local. A bright place in a world where libraries seem to have given up the fight

Lynne

[Sunshinecat]

I remember Mrs Lockharts shop, the bank on the corner was definately Barclays. Lockharts was next to a bakers shop and one or two doors along was a flower shop owned by lucy Penfold. My husband and I went to school with Mrs Lockharts grandson, we knew the family well. My own father who was born in 1906 lived his whole life in East Dulwich and had a shop in Northcross road which is almost opposite Lockharts as did his father before him.

[buddug]

Computed shorty wrote: '...the only heat was from the cast iron Range where on top black soot coated kettles boiled all day, if the front was open then we felt some heat.'

And I lived in't hole in't road'! But seriously, your account was so vivid, I could imagine you all there (you can't half write, you know!). I'm only 53 (I say 'only'), but I remember having tin baths as a child in front of the kitchen fire at my grandmother's. Happy days.

And so moving when you said: 'If I could take my place today at that table eight of the seats would now be unoccupied'. Beautifully put and brought a tear to my eye. Life, eh?

[computedshorty]

A while ago Lockharts Stationarry and Toy shops were mentioned, I have now found the picture of the two adjoining shops at 137 / 139 Lordship Lane they are third and forth shops in the picture from the corner, I am pretty sure that as a stationers they provided their own series of Post Cards this one is marked Lockharts.

[computedshorty]

This picture was taken near the corner of Blackwater Street a little up from Lockharts shops.

A ninteen twenty nine Austin seven Chummy with a brass bath tap on the radiator cap.

Sid Gerkin sitting next to the driver who lived in Whatley Road, Victor Jex lived in Bassano Street, and Computedshorty at the wheel, who lived in Lordship Lane.

Sometime in the fifties.

[Gidget]

Cute picture! Are the other two still around CS?

[computedshorty]

This was in 1939

The Day War Broke Out ?September 1939

It was the day we were getting ready for our holiday at Margate.

Mum, Dad, two elder sisters, two elder brothers, myself and the baby twins in their double pram, bags and parcels, all made our way to Herne Hill Railway Station.

First a half mile walk, then the bus, as we got off the bus there was confusion, people were running about saying that war had been declared, between England and Germany.

Dad said that we would have to go back home, as it would not be safe to go to the seaside, as it was on the coast near to Germany, and we may be invaded by German Soldiers or get bombed by aeroplanes.

We waited at the bus stop for ages but none came. A car driver stopped, he said that no buses were running as all the bus

drivers had taken them back to the bus depot,and he asked where were we trying to get to, and Dad said, ?East Dulwich?. The driver offered to take us all home, as it was a very large car it took all nine of us, and the bags! And the pram! As we drove home Dad said to the driver;

?All I want to do is get home with my family?. In the first World War he had been a prisoner in Austria for four years.

He thought that now as he was fifty-four years old he would not be called up for service abroad, although he thought he might have to join something.

Aunt Ali who lived with us, she had a room on the forth floor, came running down, she was flustered, and did not know why we had returned home. I can still remember her saying, "Oh my gawd! What?s happened??.

Dad said it ?Its because the war had started?.

Aunt knew nothing of this, but she did wonder why the church bells had been ringing all morning.

Dad thought that the wireless would be broadcasting the latest news of the war.

We had a radio that worked from an accumulator, that is a glass jar with lead hanging in acid with two terminals, when charged it worked as a battery.

Dad always put this away after it was used into the cupboard under the stairs, and we were forbidden to go near it as we could get burnt by the acid if it were spilt.

We all watched and waited while Dad fetched the accumulator, put it on the table, then got the receiver connected two wires to it, then an other wire that he pulled in through the window,

The other end of this wire went up to the top of the house, down the garden to the conker tree.

This was called the aerial. all these were fitted together, we all sat around the large table, all ten of us, waiting for the set to warm up, we could see the valves inside start to glow as they warmed up.

Dad fiddled with the tuning knob, then we could hear someone speaking but it was foreign.

Dad tried again, this time it was music, but after a while a man said;

?There will be a special announcement shortly by The Prime Minister, Mr Chamberlain?.

The speech was made, we were told that a state of war was between us, nobody knew what this meant, or how it would affect us.

Mum made tea, and opened the sandwiches that we were going to have on the beach at Margate.

By Shorty aged 8.

[KidKruger]

That's a brilliant account Computed, just read it to the children - my boy is also 8 and was fascinated.

Though I had to explain wireless and accumulator !