Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]

[dbboy]

There is so much that can be done, the supermarkets could make a huge difference if they wanted do.

Brown paper bags for fruit and veg, like it used to be

No one use plastic bags for taking fruit/veg to the checkout, home and discarded

Butchers - wrap in paper not plastic sheets.

Deli counter - ditto

Remove plastic packaging and replace with cardboard type materials

[spider69]

If Sainsbury's for instance supplied paper bags it would mean they could not sell you the 30np bags that you need to take away loose fruit and veg.

Which would hit their bottom line and they would suffer which they would not accept.

30np for a bag that you would loose or forget to take with you.

How much do they cost to manufacture 001 of a penny? Agree cardboard type materials.

[Sue]

When I was young, you took your own bag (probably cloth) to the greengrocer.

Things like potatoes and onions went straight into the bag as they were.

Fruit usually went into a brown paper bag.

Supermarkets already sell bags for life. The idea presumably is that you buy one or two and they last a long time.

Those thin plastic bags are not charged for.

Forgive my stupidity but I can't see how changing back to the old system (i.e. the 5p plastic carrier bags) or not providing brown paper bags would affect the supermarkets' bottom line more than it already has been?

ETA: Tesco, for example, no longer give you the option of paying for the thicker plastic bags when they deliver stuff.

[TE44]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Had to smile this morning.

>

> Sky News was interviewing some of the eco

> demonstrators.

>

> A lovely couple of girls - the type who?ve been

> taken on lots of foreign holidays by plane by

> their parents - shackled to ... wait for it ... an

> oil drum.

>

> Others chained up beneath a lorry - running on

> petrol or diesel no doubt.

>

> Oh the irony

Keano, I wondered about your above post, whether the irony you felt was about the assumption of these girls backgrounds. We can probably all find opposing ways we behave, our backgrounds may have an impact on our learned ways especially when trying to change patterns we have come accustomned to. Do you feel it would be more difficult for people from certain backgrounds?

[sweetgirl]

Personally I would say many of these protestors are hypocrites.

They should cycle or walk to wherever it is they are going to, it will be less of an impact on the environment!

I spoke to a good number of people at Waterloo bridge the last time & most are not even Londoners! It was a holiday for them!

[seenbeen]

Some interesting facts about the abundance, persistence and impact of the top 10 'greenhouse gases'....

https://www.thoughtco.com/worst-greenhouse-gases-606789

[TE44]

Sweetgirl are you suggesting anyone who got a bus to protest is a hypocrite.

Yes there may be peple who have never protested before the difference with XR unlike many groups in the past is the fact they want people to realise themselves rather than poiinting the finger and making people feel alienated. I belueve this recent protest has many different groups involved and been welcomed.

[Sue]

sweetgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I would say many of these protestors

> are hypocrites.

> They should cycle or walk to wherever it is they

> are going to, it will be less of an impact on the

> environment!

>

> I spoke to a good number of people at Waterloo

> bridge the last time & most are not even

> Londoners! It was a holiday for them!

But surely it is brilliant that people from elsewhere are coming to join the protest?

Why would you call it a "holiday", if they would not otherwise have been visiting London?

And why are people hypocritical if they did not cycle or walk there? What is wrong with using public transport? Not everybody is sufficiently physically fit to cycle or walk for miles!

[malumbu]

Irrespective of your views some wonderful costumes, and I bet they also could advise me on relining my garden pond too.

 

[dbboy]

I wonder what type of material was used and if it was cotton or some man made material and if the used materials can be recycled and plastic bottles being used for drinking aids, etc. etc. etc.

[TheCat]

As I've said before on this thread, I'm a strong advocate for efforts to mitigate climate change, but don't agree that ER's methods are the most effective (or even very effective at all) to do so. And then having 'tacked on' protests like the one referred to below (which has nothing to do with carbon in the atmosphere) doesn't help to dispel the perception that ER is largely run by middle class virtue signallers, more interested in telling themselves (or instgramming) about 'making a difference' than actually making one.....

"At London?s Billingsgate market, thousands of fish, stolen daily from their ocean homes, lie dead or dying,? said Kerri Waters, a spokesperson for Animal Rebellion. ?Many will have suffocated slowly when pulled aboard fishing vessels, while thousands of others remain alive as they?re transported by lorry to the market, where they?ll be gutted or boiled alive.?

So are you protesting about fossil fuels? And global warming leading to extinction of the human species? Or about fish's feelings?

People are being told they need to cut down on beef and other farmed meats becuase of the carbon impact of meat production. But apparently ER doesn't want people to eat fish either due to them being "ripped from their ocean homes".....

[malumbu]

They closed down the Department for Transport for a morning. Most of the campaigners there were past retirement age. I've not done my research but that sample does not align with your views above.

[uncleglen]

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20191013/281857235296908

explains a lot..especially the old people topping up the pension, and the young ones topping up the benefits....

[TheCat]

malumbu Wrote:

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> They closed down the Department for Transport for

> a morning. Most of the campaigners there were

> past retirement age. I've not done my research

> but that sample does not align with your views

> above.

Why can't the elderly also be middle class virtue signallers?

[malumbu]

You mentioned the word instagram, which is hardly how I think of the people I saw on Tuesday.

But you'll have to help me out here. I've mixed with Greenham women, road protestors, New Age Travelers and the like over the years with a fair amount of sympathy and occasional more active involvement. I expect that some on ER are drawn from these previous environmental/alternative lifestyle/peacenic campaigns. Are they too virtue signalers. And you also seem to be falling into the Brexiteer/populist trap of despising people because they are middle class. Many including me were the first in their family to get higher qualifications and enter professions. Yet now education and social mobility seem to be loathed for the first time, as for some (not all) some sort of jealousy that they couldn't do similar themselves. Having worked all around the country and similarly family well distributed I get grief about being the London political class etc etc.

I'm the first to have a go at some of the stereotypes I see in this area and the extremes of gentrification (wasn't like that when I lived off Coldharbour Lane in the 80s!) but you appear to tar all those on ER with the same brush.

[TheCat]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You mentioned the word instagram, which is hardly

> how I think of the people I saw on Tuesday.

>

> But you'll have to help me out here. I've mixed

> with Greenham women, road protestors, New Age

> Travelers and the like over the years with a fair

> amount of sympathy and occasional more active

> involvement. I expect that some on ER are drawn

> from these previous environmental/alternative

> lifestyle/peacenic campaigns. Are they too virtue

> signalers. And you also seem to be falling into

> the Brexiteer/populist trap of despising people

> because they are middle class. Many including me

> were the first in their family to get higher

> qualifications and enter professions. Yet now

> education and social mobility seem to be loathed

> for the first time, as for some (not all) some

> sort of jealousy that they couldn't do similar

> themselves. Having worked all around the country

> and similarly family well distributed I get grief

> about being the London political class etc etc.

>

> I'm the first to have a go at some of the

> stereotypes I see in this area and the extremes of

> gentrification (wasn't like that when I lived off

> Coldharbour Lane in the 80s!) but you appear to

> tar all those on ER with the same brushI don't despise people for being middle class. I am middle class.

You're perhaps taking my comments out of context a little. Go and look back on this thread at my original objections to this style of direct action, and that will perhaps provide you with more context of my position.

Sure, I'm perhaps overempahsing the stereotype of people that I think typify these movements (although, it's a stereotype for a reason!)...but I don't despise them either..many of them are good friends (i would say I'm wel ad truly middle class myself, so I don't despise the middle classes!) But I disagree that this action is a good use of their time, and have said as much directly to them. Most people I see that do this genuinely think they're making a difference..good for them...I just happen to not think they are really making much of a difference at all.

As an aside.....I think it's pretty hard to argue that social media (I.e. Instagram) is not a massive part of the strategy of groups such as ER....

[JohnL]

sweetgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I would say many of these protestors

> are hypocrites.

> They should cycle or walk to wherever it is they

> are going to, it will be less of an impact on the

> environment!

>

> I spoke to a good number of people at Waterloo

> bridge the last time & most are not even

> Londoners! It was a holiday for them!

I don't protest in this way (more like a low level constant moan) but I'm not walking from Holborn to Peckham Rye and still rather scared of cycling in London :) I use public transport for everything except the big grocery shop - my car has the record for the lowest yearly mileage at Kwik Fit I was told (33 miles) and I've flown 6 times (3 out 3 back) in 20 years. There are many like me I think that aren't completely environmentally friendly but not huge users either.

[fishbiscuits]

I don't think the "protestors are hypocrites" argument really stacks up.

Surely the point is to change the nature of our infrastructure (energy, transportation)... rather than to stop using the existing infrastructure altogether.

Moving towards renewables doesn't mean you have to live off-grid in the meantime.

[Hemingway]

er, we are moving towards renewables already and pretty quickly. We have some of the most challenging emission targets in the world. it's just the old anti-capitalist rent-a- mob ravers combined with naive school kids and their virtual signalling parents. Outrage from the privileged, searching for some sense of victim hood.

[pk]

Hemingway Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> er, we are moving towards renewables already and

> pretty quickly. We have some of the most

> challenging emission targets in the world. it's

> just the old anti-capitalist rent-a- mob ravers

> combined with naive school kids and their virtual

> signalling parents. Outrage from the privileged,

> searching for some sense of victim hood.

yawn

[yeknomyeknom]

Total yawn

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hemingway Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > er, we are moving towards renewables already

> and

> > pretty quickly. We have some of the most

> > challenging emission targets in the world. it's

> > just the old anti-capitalist rent-a- mob ravers

> > combined with naive school kids and their

> virtual

> > signalling parents. Outrage from the

> privileged,

> > searching for some sense of victim hood.

>

> yawn

[cella]

Ditto yawn.

[natty01295]

Whats wrong with Public transport

Bus, tube, train

sweetgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I would say many of these protestors

> are hypocrites.

> They should cycle or walk to wherever it is they

> are going to, it will be less of an impact on the

> environment!

>

> I spoke to a good number of people at Waterloo

> bridge the last time & most are not even

> Londoners! It was a holiday for them!

[fishbiscuits]

Hemingway Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have some of the most challenging emission targets in the world.

That's OK then. As long as we have targets. As you were.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The accusation of hypocrisy is so easy to level against those living in a system that is fundamentally at odds with the environment. But the ER crowd are demanding systematic change. There is a limit to what individuals can achieve alone - it requires collective action by governments / large corporations. To say, you can't have a view, or ask for change until you are 100% carbon neutral yourself and are doing nothing that contributes to mass extinction and environmental degradation is simply nihilism. To suggest that those who live in affluent countries or are privileged shouldn't be able to have a view, is the same. If you have privilege it is more incumbent on you to use the power which comes with that privileged to try and improve things. It's easy to dismiss people as 'crusties' and 'hippies', but when the sh*t hits the fan, your kids aren't going to applaud you for being cynical.