Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]

[katanita]

PS https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/climate-change-warming-extinction-rebellion-16627664 a more detailed response to the China/India argument.

[yeknomyeknom]

If any bakers would like to contribute any suitable foodstuff to next weeks proceedings, I am happy to bring it with mine when I attend next week. Please pm me if relevant to you.

[katanita]

Also lots of other help needed, if you are interested in getting involved but aren't sure how, send me a PM and I can advise.

[uncleglen]

Not so carbon-nuetral Greta then

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9739595/greta-thunbergs-carbon-free-yacht-trip-flights/

and where do they get all that red fabric from?

This hypocrisy is exactly why I cancelled my subs to Friends of the Earth when I found out that Jonathon Porritt was flying around the world....

[katanita]

The Rebellion starts on Monday. Full details here https://rebellion.earth/international-rebellion/. If you're interested in getting involved but not part of a group yet PM me and I can help.

And don't worry about the above, it is impossible not to be a climate hypocrite on some level, XR has a principle of no blame and shame for individuals that recognises that it is wider systems that are really at fault and need to change.

[Earl Aelfheah]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Not so carbon-nuetral Greta then

> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9739595/greta-thunbe

> rgs-carbon-free-yacht-trip-flights/

>

> and where do they get all that red fabric from?

>

> This hypocrisy is exactly why I cancelled my subs

> to Friends of the Earth when I found out that

> Jonathon Porritt was flying around the world....

It's ridiculous to think that one cannot call for systematic change, whilst being part of the existing system. This amounts in practice to simple nihilism.

[Sephiroth]

?Simple nihilism?

Have you MET uncle before?

[katanita]

I feel obliged to post this internet classic https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha followed by its recent update https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha-vs-the-green-new-deal

[uncleglen]

Dig deep people

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/extinction-rebellion-chaos-cost-police-7-million-says-scotland-yard-chief-cressida-dick-a4133076.html

and that was in May....these people are just anarchists and various old farts having a last hurrah...

[Hilja]

I went to a very interesting Gresham Lecture on Monday evening:

"How to Avert a Climate Catastrophe - Professor Vicky Pope will discuss the challenges of climate modelling and reduction of emissions; Dr Damien Short will talk about why we need to legislate against Ecocide; and Professor Geoffrey Beattie will discuss the psychology that stops us from taking action."

Link to the video & transcripts at:

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/avert-climate-catastrophe

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Dig deep people

> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/extinction-

> rebellion-chaos-cost-police-7-million-says-scotlan

> d-yard-chief-cressida-dick-a4133076.html

>

> and that was in May....these people are just

> anarchists and various old farts having a last

> hurrah...

you don't believe in climate change then?

like the Donald

[Sephiroth]

"Dig deep people"

Mate, that is not deep

As the years roll by, we will be paying a lot more than that to try and cope with the effects of climate change

Not that that will bother you eh Glen? Like me, I suspect you are a man of age so won't be around to witness the damage

[peckman]

Even if you dont believe in climate change (which is real btw) does anyone actually think it's reasonable to burn and use all the worlds resources .. as good housekeeping goes it's pretty shit

[fishbiscuits]

I think as a general rule anything that raises climate change awareness has to be a positive, whether it's "anarchists and old farts", or rather precocious teenagers. The gravity of the issue outweighs any personal dislike.

Let's have a bit less of the "die-ins" though... it's a bit embarrassing..

[Seabag]

I liked the dodgy hose incident, in fact I reckon it got them more traction on their cause.

I suppose old fire engines are decommissioned for a reason, this being one of them.

But it was the endeavour I admired, not so much the delivery 😂

[uncleglen]

peckman Wrote:

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> Even if you dont believe in climate change (which

> is real btw) does anyone actually think it's

> reasonable to burn and use all the worlds

> resources .. as good housekeeping goes it's pretty

> shit

they go hand in hand. Man's activities on the planet contributes greatly to global warming....and using finite resources like oil to make endless plastic bags etc is moronic....and I did NOT say I did not believe in global warming pk...I studied global warming and the greenhouse effect to death in my degree.

However nobody is prepared to grasp the nettle of overpopulation- especially not the religious morons!

[malumbu]

Overpopulation - a complex discussion. UK has an aging population, and without immigration population may even go down. But who is there to wipe the bums of our old and infirm. I'm using this course example as I did exactly this one summer working on a geriatric ward and may well be in need of someone to do this for me one day. So whilst in the west the birth rate is low and population aging, we need developing countries with higher birth rate to provide the workers for our health and social services. Saying this from a perspective of a very interesting presentation by an academic, rather than pub talk. I'll leave that one open for discussion. Or we can do was the Japanese do and use robots for company of our older generation.

Yes population control is a massive factor, raising of living standards etc.

[katanita]

Has anyone got any recent science on the relationship overpopulation and use of resources? I assume globally population levels are still rising faster than we can currently support but I'm sure I've read that the birth rate is levelling off or even decreasing in some areas. It would also be interesting to know if anyone has modelled what level the planet could sustainably cope with if e.g. we decreased inefficient animal farming and planted crops for direct consumption instead, and reduced carbon emissions etc.

[Charles Martel]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> I think as a general rule anything that raises

> climate change awareness has to be a positive,

> whether it's "anarchists and old farts", or rather

> precocious teenagers. The gravity of the issue

> outweighs any personal dislike.

Extinction Rebellion is not about raising awareness. Their stated aim is to seize control of the British state and then to use state power to enforce their hysterical agenda on the rest of us. For our own good of course.

Fortunately there are far more intelligent, rational and humane people concerned with dealing with the reality of how an industrial civilization can progress. I would suggest listening to this interesting podcast in which Peter Fiekowsky, the Founder and President of the Healthy Climate Alliance, discusses his ideas for reversing climate change. https://player.fm/series/reversing-climate-change/ep-39-peter-fiekowsky-founder-of-healthy-climate-alliance

It is not surprising that while Greta Thunberg's hysterical theatrics at the UN were broadcast worldwide, the first Annual Global Climate Restoration Forum at the UN had no attention. See it for yourself http://webtv.un.org/search/annual-global-climate-restoration-forum/6087196359001/?term=2019-09-17&sort=date

The more that you look into the issues around climate change and the very many good ideas that are being put forward as credible solutions, the less sympathy you will have with Extinction Rebellion and their aims.

Economic progress is the key to slowing and stabilising the world's population as Hans Rosling explains in this TED talk.

The sooner we get to grips with decarbonizing our own economy the sooner we will have the solutions to solve these problems for the rest of the world. Or we can just superglue ourselves to the roads and let the Chinese take over. As the attached graph shows the EU and US are starting to reduce emissions, but the current problem is caused by everyone's cumulative emissions since the start of industrialisation. Population growth in areas without industry like India and Africa has added very little cumulatively. They won't be a factor if we have zero carbon solutions for power generation.

[malumbu]

I've just seen Juliet Stevenson on the news. She didn't look like she wanted to seize control of the British State. I don't see how ER will ever achieve the critical mass to achieve this aim. So main outcome appears to be increased publicity/profile rather than a coup.

The more intelligent, rational and humane Peter Fiekowsky seems to be about carbon capture - which to me suits the beliefs of the sceptic, ie that we can engineer our way out of this if absolutely necessary. I couldn't bear the razzmatazz of the broadcast so only listened to the beginning.

Not sure if I agree on population growth either - growing population, more land for farming, carbon sinks lost, pressure on water resources, and that is before we get into improved standard of living.

Good to challenge, but not convinced.

[uncleglen]

There was a man on the radio today who is involved in clearing litter from his local beach. He said it is almost impossible to involve people under the age of 50....says it all really how about how they really care about the environment- the litter shouldn't be there in the first place.

As for overpopulation and not having staff for older generations because the population is ageing and the birth rate falling- that is as a direct result of the pressure on housing as many youngsters cannot afford a place to live AND a child let alone more than one. And it also means that many youngsters have to move away from their ageing parents as they cannot afford to live near them....and as for getting social housing ha ha ha...unless you've got 10 kids ...which means that people who irresponsibly breed are favoured for cheap housing and that breeds an underclass- then crime goes up ....and up and up...

[keano77]

Had to smile this morning.

Sky News was interviewing some of the eco demonstrators.

A lovely couple of girls - the type who?ve been taken on lots of foreign holidays by plane by their parents - shackled to ... wait for it ... an oil drum.

Others chained up beneath a lorry - running on petrol or diesel no doubt.

Oh the irony

[TE44]

Keano, do you think a movement for change should only involve people who live without room for change.

[keano77]

Sorry TE44, I don?t understand your question.

Just to be clear, I think it is a very noble cause but it needs to be realistic. Don?t forget even the tyres on our bikes are derived from petroleum byproducts and it will be many years before we can mine asteroids to replenish depleted rare-earth metals (but that will require sending many rockets up into the atmosphere).

We need a scientific revolution to achieve XR?s aims.

[malumbu]

There's numerous changes that we can do to reduce our carbon footprint, essentially more effective use of resources. This is not just about technical solutions and what governments should be doing. If XR gets this over (irrespective of maybe their bigger political agendas and criticisms) then this gets my support. And this is from someone who lost two hours of work (until very recently I was a professional tree hugger).

Government nudges and bigger interventions wont to amiss and BJ worries me with this populist shite - starting with suggestions of reducing fuel duty. His environmentalism as Mayor (the ULEZ is his baby)was no doubt just another sign of his naked ambition rather than a true belief.

In parts of France they just banned plastic carrier bags. No consultation, no wavering, just do it. And now fruit and veg sold in paper or biodegradable plastic. Small measures but the right direction.