Revised new - M&S planning application to replace Iceland..

[the-e-dealer]

David nothing wrong with describing e dulwichs atmosphere as a village. As for udt you shouldn't ban any customers that would be communism ! ;-)

[davidh]

I would never ban anyone, although she (he?) obviously thinks he/she is a bit too cool for east dulwich and I agree

[fazer71]

I lost interest in M&S when they started getting their underwear made in the Far East and after 3 washes the elastic disintegrated and the socks wore out after a month.

M&S made me look like a tramp in front of my then girlfriend, our relationship never recovered.

M&S corner cutting cheap Bstards,,,,,,,,, Grrrrrrrrr

[Undisputedtruth]

@davidh,

I am saddened that you refused to show any solidarity for your fellow traders. It is they that have made Lordship Lane what it is today. It is their hard work that has allowed your gift shop to thrive. My earlier comments was designed to see if you would be willing to show at least some empathy for your fellow traders.

I know I'm too cool for all things M&S but I didn't say I was too cool for East Dulwich. You've made that up in order to draw away attention from yourself with your I'm alright Jack attitude.

I've supported the Lordship Lane economy long before your bland gift shop had opened. So no, I won't be going away just because you told me.

@Gedwina,

Clone Town Britain

The loss of local identity on the nation's high streets

Hopefully, this report would explain further my stance against Clone Towns.

[rgutsell]

Hiya all

The arrival of M and S in East Dulwich will be the end of any remaining pretensions that East Dulwich has as a "Bohemian" place. From that point on, we will all have to admit that we are all fully paid up members of the stuffed, conservative, and aspiring, middle class. (!!LOL)

Yours

R N Gutsell

[the-e-dealer]

Better man the Pine Barricades then.

[KalamityKel]

rgutsell what's your point? :-S

I mean I know I'm not the brightest sunbeam but seriously!

[the-e-dealer]

At First East Dulwich was a Labour Area. Then it started supporting the Lib Cons. Now it is supporting the Tories.

[KalamityKel]

I doubt the sway is really based on the parties themselves but who there is to represent them...

Anywho what's that got to do with the M&S application?

Incidentally... does anyone recall or is able to research when M&S was with us the first time round (I can't find anything)? According to SE22 magazine (under the "SE22 Councillors" sections) "a very significant planning application has been submitted to replace the current Iceland with a return of Marks & Spencer to Lordship Lane"

Would be interested to know when M&S was last here and where.

[Zebedee Tring]

rgutsell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hiya all

>

> The arrival of M and S in East Dulwich will be the

> end of any remaining pretensions that East Dulwich

> has as a "Bohemian" place. From that point on, we

> will all have to admit that we are all fully paid

> up members of the stuffed, conservative, and

> aspiring, middle class. (!!LOL)

>

> Yours

>

> R N Gutsell

I reckon that a good percentage of the so called "bohemians" who claim to despise the middle classes and all that middle classness stands for are themselves from a solidly middle class background but somehow kid themselves that they are members of the working class. This is something that I used to do when I was teenager but I grew out of it by the time that I reached my early 20s.

People who kid themselves that ED, with its skyrocketing house prices, is not a middle class area need to get a reality check.

That is, unless the people who say that they're working class mean that they have to work for a living and are not living off a private income, which would include about 95% of the population or more.

[Nicholas Spears]

You're so right Zebedee. These faux-working class supporters of Iceland seem to think that anyone who shops there is some sort of working class hero, rather than consumers paying a massive company for low quality food.

A new version of Pulp's Common People springs to mind: 'I wanna shop like common people...'

[Undisputedtruth]

Iceland food is cheaper because they don't spend as much on advertising, premisis, furnishings, director bonuses, and packaging than Marks & Spencer's. Iceland and M&S food may even be made in the same factory.

[StraferJack]

I suspect even a cursory look at the ingredients list will tell you why Iceland is cheaper

Either they are or they aren't - muddying the water with "may" is just poor

[*Bob*]

Especially considering the amusing hissy-fit demanding facts.. just a few pages ago..

[Zebedee Tring]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Iceland food is cheaper because they don't spend

> as much on advertising, premisis, furnishings,

> director bonuses, and packaging than Marks &

> Spencer's. Iceland and M&S food may even be made

> in the same factory.

But this planning application will be decided on its planning merits, not on whether Iceland is better/ tastier / more worthy/ more bohemian etc etc than M&S, or vice versa.

[Nicholas Spears]

The inappropriately named Undisputedtruth tells us that Iceland keeps prices down by, in part, not paying as much in director bonuses as Marks & Spencer's.

So how come Iceland founder and boss Malcolm Walker has got a ?200m fortune? Not exactly a horny handed son of toil is he?

[Undisputedtruth]

Nicholas Spears Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So how come Iceland founder and boss Malcolm

> Walker has got a ?200m fortune? Not exactly a

> horny handed son of toil is he?

Walker's personal fortune is estimated at ?66m. I'm afraid you have wrong figures.

[Undisputedtruth]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Either they are or they aren't - muddying the

> water with "may" is just poor

Major Food retailers outsource their food manufacturing. I've seen Food Agency safety warnings giving information about a mishap in a factory with list of retailers and brands affected by it.

[annabel42]

Iceland is opening a branch today at or very near Finchley Road tube and very

close to Waitrose.

M&S has come out with a new range of "cheap" products - own brand I think.

[Undisputedtruth]

Finchley Road is a really good hub for grocery shopping. The Waitrose meat & fish counters are first class, especially after a refit dating back a few years ago. Also, there's an excellent Sainsburys not too far away.

[fazer71]

M&S are back in Paris ... except they don't sell Food! They are selling clothes!!!!!!

Fancy that trying to sell Clothes to the French very brave indeed!

I popped in to buy some biscuits etc but none to be found....

Complete bunch of Muppets!

But then again maybe trying to sell food to the French is a bigger problem?

[Undisputedtruth]

I fully agree fazer71.

M&S used to own Brook Brothers. Here's what Del Vecchio said about M&S: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/2789122/Del-Vecchio-tailors-Brook-Brothers-for-UK.html

BTW, Brook Brothers clothes are quality unlike M&S's. Excellent store on Regent Street, friendly staff where one of them recognised me from a few months back.

[fazer71]

Yes Brooks Brothers are very good.

I don?t understand how M&S have made so many costly mistakes and they?re still going deep reserves, maybe the banks have bailed them out or is it the food part of their business?

I now associate M&S with poor quality clothing, over packaged / over processed overpriced food.

Best found in Bromley / Croydon etc in the same high street "desirable" league as a poshed up MacDonalds.

[first mate]

Gedwina,

You have used the nimby word quite a few times now. Sticks and stones and all that but are you really in favour of daily deliveries by articulated lorries onto a residential street beginning at 6am? Have you actually seen the site of the proposed deliveries and seen for yourself how small the proposed space will b and are you clear just how big the delivery lorries are?

There are good planning proposals and bad ones- this is a bad 'un where the absolute focus appears to be on maximising the value of the property rather than effecting a balance between commercial interests and the quality of life of locals. You should be fairly clear by now that this is not simply an issue about parking- a massive over simplification on your part. However, if you choose to view any objection whatsoever to the current application as nimbyism so be it.

[Penguin68]

this is a bad 'un where the absolute focus appears to be on maximising the value of the property rather than effecting a balance between commercial interests and the quality of life of locals.

It is up to planners to make those decisions, not those wanting to act commercially. Neither M&S (nor Iceland) nor the site owner are registered charities, I believe, so the fact that they wish to maximise their profits seems to be their 'job' assuming what they are doing is not illegal or immoral. The value of having an M&S store locally (and clearly, vide the past threads there is a percieved value to many) will have to be balanced against the disruption to those living closely around the site. That is what the planners (and the politicians on the planning committee) are there to determine.

Many locals will consider their quality of life enhanced if an M&S store opens locally - to say that this does not impact in a positive manner the quality of life of some ED-ers (if not those living immediately adjacent to the site) is quite wrong.

If you take a strictly Utilitarian (greatest good for the greatest number) approach to this - are the numbers positively effected by the proposal (because they want to shop in a local M&S store) more or less in number than those whose lives will be adversely effected - discounting the views of those not actually impacted either way but feeling they want to support one or other side for political or social reasons? Of course, you might (greatest good) want to scale the positive feelings and the negative - perhaps the amount of 'good' for those wanting the store is only a third or a fifth of intensity to the 'bad' felt (or which might be felt) by those close - but of course even those disrupted by deliveries may still take benefit from the presence of the store...?

By the way, those preferring Iceland to M&S don't count here, as that is not the choice the planners will have to make.