Revised new - M&S planning application to replace Iceland..

[the-e-dealer]

I agree with Penguin

I'd be happy to sign a petition in Favour of the Development.

[Zebedee Tring]

Chillaxed Wrote:

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> I may be wrong, but didn't I read somewhere that

> ED residents petitioned against Iceland moving to

> LL back in the day?

I seem to remember that when we first moved to the area 25 years ago, there was a Sainsburys freezer shop on the site, which was more upmarket than Iceland. It was replaced by Bejam who, I think, were subsequently taken over by Iceland - they then rebranded the store as Iceland.

[undergran]

Not a 30-something newcomer, lived in ED for 27 years, don't want an empty shop, and would love to have M and S - even those of us drawing a pension like to buy a few treats there! And they have just announced a new budget range so it's win-win for me.

[first mate]

As I have said before, I think the shop is pretty much irrelevant- it is the detail of this particular application in its entirety that looks like it could make life for residents in the immedate vicinity a pain.

[Penguin68]

There are many people who might think that having an M&S (any newly done up good store) within a couple of minutes walking would be a plus, not a minus; better than an empty unused shell anyway. People living around Iceland are in easy walking of good public transport, so may be less worried about parking competition. As I have said, the choice may not be between change and no change, but between changes with different merits. How many locals will be happy to lose annoying Iceland deliveries to an extent where thay are also happy not to have any store on the corner?

If it's economic for Iceland to stay they will, it it's not, they won't. For the site owner the rental from offices may be far less interesting than the rental from appartments. Any argument which looks to block more residential housing, at a time of real shortages in London, is too nimbyist by half.

[mr garcia]

i agree with Cora. always been impressed by the staff in iceland. was in there the other day and the security guard was helping elderly customers to the check out and off loading their goods on the checkout belt. Not seen that in any M and S i've used - moorgate and islington.

Plus they do have cheap basic lines...and always have the cheapest veggie sausages and quorn - which are always overpriced in other stores.

Chris

[first mate]

P68,

In the view of immediately local residents the negatives of the current application may outweigh the benefits. I would hope the planners and developers can have another look to see if there are tweaks that can be made that make the development more palatable all round. One can pick out any one aspect of the development as being for the greater social good, but it is the whole application that is, in my view anyhow, at issue. Any part viewed in isolation would probably be okay- except loads of deliveries by articulated lorry in the early hours.

[Undisputedtruth]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Some typically obtuse posts from you over the

> weekend UDT. I don't remember anyone suggesting to

> date that Iceland 'spends as much' as M&S on

> marketing. Selecting random facts always was your

> strong point.. as ever, it's the interpretation

> that's always a problem - especially for someone

> with your particular condition. I suggest (if you

> want to take part in this sort of discussion) less

> time sitting around in flares listening to soul

> music, more time in the real world - if you know

> where it is.

>

> So - to business.

>

> Iceland is (virtually) all uk-based with frozen

> food accounting for most of its business. M&S

> sells food, clothing and homewares and around 1/3

> of its stores aren't even in the uk. Are the two

> comparable like-for-like? Iceland employs

> somewhere over 20k people. M&S nearly 4 times the

> amount. Are the two comparable like-for like? M&S

> turnover is around 4x the turnover of Iceland. So

> the question is: how does Iceland's marketing

> spend both scale-up and stack-up against the

> (relative) areas of M&S's spend? Because unless

> you can grasp this, you might as well be comparing

> a wasp and a tennis racket.

>

> Iceland does not, as you imagine, lean back in the

> safe knowledge that its products 'sell

> themselves', or that people wander in there just

> because of the nice big red sign. It spends many

> millions of pounds on getting people to their

> store. Going back a few years they were spending

> around 15m at luring people in there. And I'm sure

> even you can agree, 15m is 'quite a lot' of money.

> Its successful campaigns (such as the Kerry K one,

> before she got ditched for beaking chang) made a

> huge difference to the fortunes of the chain.

Another post to the bin, I think. The-e-dealer is right in saying that you don't say anything useful, Bob. Just a poor attempt to justify your earlier points.

Iceland's ?15m is not a lot of money compared to the ?160m advertising budget belonging to M&S. The key aim for most advertising campaigns is to plant brand names into people's minds. Intel's campaign is one example where essentially it boils down to brand name and jingle. How advertising budgets breaks down into different factions is irrelevant.

I'd hazard a guess that what you know is not worth knowing, Bob. The soul, jazz and funk music that I listened to are sampled by many of today's musicians and forms the backbone of club music today. So your stupid insult actually tells me that you are just a don't know any better that spend his day posting irrelevant and pointless remarks. In fact, I'll probably have a field day in pointing them out for the rest of the year!

[Administrator]

Please leave out the personal insulting comments people. Undisputedtruth you were removed from the forum before because of complaints against you and your attitude but you were let back in. You're not in the Lounge now so please play nicely.

[Undisputedtruth]

I took exception to Bob's earlier comments which was personal in nature with one comment connecting to previous insulting posts dating a few months ago. My response was mild in comparison to his.

I'm happy to modify my future behaviour though.

[Nicholas]

i*Rate Wrote:If you take a

> look at the shoppers there you will see the poorer

> residents of the area - some of whom have lived

> here for twenty to thirty years, like myself.

> I do get fed up with the new arrivals here who

> assume that because they've paid bit money for

> their houses in this new chic area then they are

> entitled to criticise us lesser mortals on our way

> of life. I'd just like to point out that when I

> moved here over thirty years ago it was a very run

> down part of south London and only through hard

> work by myself and many other young people like me

> did we improve our homes and ultimately the

> general look of the streets. I was pleased when

> Blue Mountain Cafe opened and The Arterie but it

> took a long time before these came along and the

> area took off.

> With respect.

The Iceland store im my opinion is a bit ugly and could do with a make over. Regarding 30 something new arrivals that is not me. I'm old school been in the area for over 25 years like you. If I had the vote it would be an M&S over an Iceland any day nothing to do with being more up market!

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> Nicolas,

> I'm sorry that you feel Iceland is and eyesore,

> unfortunately there are many parts of ED that

> have'nt had the makeover to suit the 'New Wave' of

> affluent 30-something-year-olds.

[hellokiran]

As much as I love a good marks and Spencer's sandwich, as a 20 year old childminder who has just moved into a first flat, this sounds horrific to me. I need the likes of iceland to buy bread and chocolate (I'll give the 20 frozen burgers for ?1 a miss though)

[Undisputedtruth]

M&S chicken sandwiches sounds really tasty according to this article. :-S

[Lowlander]

What is the difference in the price of bread/milk between Iceland and the Co-Op?

[Lynne]

I don't think you need to be an "affluent 30 something" to appreciate good design. Iceland hasn't got an attractive frontage. Is there something wrong with wanting one's locality to look good?

Why do some people try to turn everthing on the forum into a class debate?

Lynne

[Chillaxed]

I know, annoying isn't it. Best (or worst) example I've seen was where EDF's resident 'chip on shoulder personified' claimed that stealing daffodils was a middle class problem.

[Loz]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> I'd hazard a guess that what you know is not worth knowing, Bob.

Was it one of those strange EDF jokes I remember from a while ago, or do I recall *Bob* actually works in the advertising industry?

[Administrator]

Please stay on topic

[Penguin68]

First come I. My name is JOWETT.

There's no knowledge but I know it.

I am the Master of this College,

What I don't know isn't knowledge.

Sorry Admin, couldn't resist a proper attribution.

[Renata Hamvas]

Please note, comments on the planning application as part of the consultation (ie submitted to Southwark Council) should be on issues such as the size, layout, impact on light, traffic, parking, deliveries etc, and not which retailer you prefer.

Renata

[first mate]

Renata,

I'm afraid that other than the immediate residents, who will be affected day to day by this application/development in a variety of ways, the only real interest it can have for the GP of ED is the affect it will have on them and that is almost certainly what the shop has to offer by way of goodies and the aesthetic nature of its frontage and skyline- why would they care otherwise? 'Tis human nature.

[Undisputedtruth]

Dear Renata,

I do not care for an Iceland or M&S as I do not use them. But I do care that the High Street shops are diverse enough and caters for the local population regardless of social background. Do Southwark have community cohesion policies to ensure diversity of local population and amenities?

[bonaome]

I'd be happy to sign a petition in Favour of the Development.

I think you might share you views to better effect by looking at the details of the planning application here, and sending your comments by email to [email protected] quoting the application reference number 12/AP/1340.

why would they care otherwise?

I broadly support the proposed development, echoing some of Penguin68's points I think it may make the difference between an economically viable retail unit and an empty shell and I think 8 new flats in the area is a good thing, especially if a caveat can be attached to planning permission to make (some of) the flats available / affordable for key workers. I think there is a broader sense of community in ED than perhaps you give credit to.

[the-e-dealer]

bonieme I already have commented but petitions are counted as well.

[first mate]

bonaome,

It's good you have flagged up the need to address planning directly with your views and I hope more people do so.

I just wonder if you have read the application in detail and if you are au fait with the back of the Iceland shop? I too broadly support the need for more low cost housing, especially for young people and for key workers. However, I don't think this proposal has been thought through that well and it could make life quite difficult for residents on the street particularly those who are nearest to the proposed development.

There have been a number of comments on this thread to the effect that xy or z is not in the gift of the planner or the developers. I think that good planning has to take all the contingencies into account and perhaps come up with some more imaginative solutions. The current plans appear to seek to shoehorn in as much as possible into the space.

No doubt there is a broader sense of community in ED than I give credit for but the bulk of views expressed on this thread centre on shop aesthetics and the brand- presumably because that is the point the development impacts on their lives. Please give some thought to the residents who live close to the proposed development they are also part of the community and current objections to development application are made on very reasonable grounds.