Revised new - M&S planning application to replace Iceland..

[El Pibe]

More like losing the will to live Mr Medic

[first mate]

Motorbird,

No problem- fair question.

The car wash is well used- especially at the busiest shopping times, because that is when people like to leave their car to be washed, shopping at the same time. At these busy times cars waiting for the wash are parked on the street or in any other areas available. If those other areas are removed then that means even more cars from the car wash out on the street.

As an aside, the car wash seems to be very lucky with the local wardens in that they never ever get caught, even when parking cars on yellow lines ;) One caould also say if there were no pressure on parking at these busy times (as you suggest) why would they even try to park on yellow lines?

Additionally,under the proposals while spaces to park will be signifcantly reduced the aim is to put a minimum of 8 more residential units whose car-owning occupants will also need to park...on the street.

An increase in traffic and deliveries by huge articulated lorries is not to be taken lightly either. Each and every arrival blocks the whole street for quite a time as there is so little space to manoeuvre them, the aim is to reduce this space but increase the lorries.

[the-e-dealer]

Yeah what a terrible idea attracting more shoppers to LLane. Maybe we should have a cull!

[Gidget]

HelBel65 Wrote:

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> > Crouch End shopping area is a bigger area than

> > East Dulwich.

>

> Not true. Waitrose, Tesco Metro, Budgens and M+S

> Food together with several long established and

> much loved independents are all within a 2 or 3

> minute walk of the Clocktower - they all seem to

> be thriving. That's the point. The only

> independent to close in Crouch End recently was,

> sadly, the bookshop and that can hardly be blamed

> on the supermarkets...

>

> I said earlier on this thread - once M+S is here,

> Waitrose won't be far behind and I stick by that.

> Having just moved here from Crouch End, I will be

> quite happy!

Bigger shopping area means more streets and space, not sure what you think I meant. East Dulwich has one main rather narrow street - Lordship Lane. Not the same with Crouch End. The approach into Crouch End from Highgate (where M&S is is also much wider. At the Clock Tower the road splits.........

so if you moved to ED from Crouch End it sounds like you want some sort of mini replica area?

First Mate sums it up, as usual, very well.

[LondonMix]

All First Mate has said is he is concerned about the parking and the delivery times, which are totally reasonable concerns. You seem to have a philosophical issue with M&S per se...

Creating more housing in London will always increase parking pressure and that's something we have to live with as additional housing is needed to deal with population growth. Whether losing the car parking will have a significant impact on parking pressure is hard for anyone to say (we all have our views) but it?s not exactly clear cut. If a firm that can do the same volume of business as M&S would take the property without the alterations to the car park, I agree that might be preferable. But in my view we should to the extent possible in this recession, support businesses that can be successful in the area.

[HelBel65]

> Bigger shopping area means more streets and space,

> not sure what you think I meant. East Dulwich has

> one main rather narrow street - Lordship Lane.

> Not the same with Crouch End. The approach into

> Crouch End from Highgate (where M&S is is also

> much wider. At the Clock Tower the road

> splits.........

>

> so if you moved to ED from Crouch End it sounds

> like you want some sort of mini replica area?

Not a replica no - just that I have seen that it can work without damaging the area (in my opinion) and I enjoyed having the choice there. And I was relieved (like everyone else in Crouch End) that the arrival of Waitrose/M&S didn't destroy the existing independents.

Fair point about the street layout - but the 4 shops I mentioned really are very close to each other, yet it still seems to work....ED is more spread out. Waitrose, if it came here, could easily end up being near or beyond Goose Green for example, or up towards the Plough.

[Gidget]

I don't think Ed is necessarily more spread out, it just doesn't have enough space to house that type of shop unless the Co-op went. Crouch End also has long roads, but more of them.

[Undisputedtruth]

HelBel65 Wrote:

>

> Not true. Waitrose, Tesco Metro, Budgens and M+S

> Food together with several long established and

> much loved independents are all within a 2 or 3

> minute walk of the Clocktower - they all seem to

> be thriving. That's the point. The only

> independent to close in Crouch End recently was,

> sadly, the bookshop and that can hardly be blamed

> on the supermarkets...

>

> I said earlier on this thread - once M+S is here,

> Waitrose won't be far behind and I stick by that.

> Having just moved here from Crouch End, I will be

> quite happy!

There was a brilliant men clothes shop, just around the corner from the Crounch End shops, that closed some years ago. The owner and I just talked about jeans and soul music for over an hour.

eta: commas.

[Gavain]

iceland would benefit from local global warming, its a tip and lets face it, its a leftover when ED was a chavtown, it mainly sells freezer food, sacks of chips and packs of 24 burgers and other junk to stuff the faeces of the chav as they watch remote in hand their Messiah Jeramiah Kyle.

[Undisputedtruth]

Gavain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> iceland would benefit from local global warming,

> its a tip and lets face it, its a leftover when ED

> was a chavtown, it mainly sells freezer food,

> sacks of chips and packs of 24 burgers and other

> junk to stuff the faeces of the chav as they watch

> remote in hand their Messiah Jeramiah Kyle.

East Dulwich was never a chavtown, Gavain. I object to M&S because they do not meet my high standards and that the shop is the number one choice for 'don't know any betters'.

[the-e-dealer]

In 1990 East Dulwich was 'Silver' Town with a very high number of elderly. Car ownership was low and many houses still had and used outside toilets. They died out and the young moved in. And now the young have grown a bit and have kids.

not sure quite when the chavs were here.

[Chillaxed]

I find that a strange objection, Undisputedtruth. Why do other people's shopping habits bother you? I couldn't give a toss where other people shop.

[tallulah71]

Gavain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> iceland would benefit from local global warming,

> its a tip and lets face it, its a leftover when ED

> was a chavtown, it mainly sells freezer food,

> sacks of chips and packs of 24 burgers and other

> junk to stuff the faeces of the chav as they watch

> remote in hand their Messiah Jeramiah Kyle.

East Dulwich was never a chavtown, Gavain. I object to M&S because they do not meet my high standards and that the shop is the number one choice for 'don't know any betters'.

Well said! :)-D

[Undisputedtruth]

My snobbery to M&S customers is no different to their snobbery of Iceland customers.

[Chillaxed]

OK, thanks for clarifying. Both attitudes make no sense to me.

For the record, I'm for M&S 'cause I'm lazy and like their Cook! ready-meal range, on balance more than I like Iceland's range.

I won?t be making any comment on the planning application though, as it's not a vote for M&S or Iceland, it's a vote for refurbing (re-moding even) the existing building.

[Zebedee Tring]

Gavain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> iceland would benefit from local global warming,

> its a tip and lets face it, its a leftover when ED

> was a chavtown, it mainly sells freezer food,

> sacks of chips and packs of 24 burgers and other

> junk to stuff the faeces of the chav as they watch

> remote in hand their Messiah Jeramiah Kyle.

You are Jeremy Clarkson and I claim my ?5.

It's bad enough that you are referring to a segment of the population "chavs" but even worse that you are talking about their faeces. This could upset those of a nervous disposition.

[grumpyoldman]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

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> In 1990 East Dulwich was 'Silver' Town with a very

> high number of elderly. Car ownership was low and

> many houses still had and used outside toilets.

> They died out and the young moved in. And now the

> young have grown a bit and have kids.

> not sure quite when the chavs were here.

I object to the comments about ED being silver town in 1990.

We moved into the area when we were in our 30's and there were butchers , bakers and a fish shop in LL.

This was destroyed when sainsburys moved into the area and people could not compete.

Marks and spencers used to be in Pekham and we used to go there on the bus and buy at the weekend.

Times change get over it.

having M&S on Lordship lane would be good for the local tradesman as may be people would shop there instead of going to Sainsburys, therefore bringing more trade to the other local shops who are lossing out to the big superstores.

Bring more people into teh area and it may prosper more, put your heads into the sand and it will be a ghost town as everyone will buy on line and have deliveres.

We are own destiny, do what you want but don't complain when it all goes wrong.

[the-e-dealer]

Isn't Jeremy Clarkson a Chav?

[the-e-dealer]

Objection over ruled. It did have a very elderly population. I moved here in 90 and both my neighbours were very elderly as was half the street. If you check the historical demographics for ED I think the Average age was about 70. Theres no dispute that younger people moved in. You and I are part of that.

[Jeremy]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

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> If you check the historical demographics

> for ED I think the Average age was about 70

Average age was 70? I demand evidence.

I'd be prepared to bet that the average age was not over 55.

[*Bob*]

Come on, Jeremy. The evidence is right there.

There was a guy next door who was 70 - and also some other people who were 70. Which part of "there were some people on my street who were around 70 so everyone else in ED must have been 70' do you not understand?

[the-e-dealer]

I think you need to try and understand what average means or read my post a bit more carefully. Anyway the pop of e Dulwich is much younger now.

[*Bob*]

I hear ya.

There were some old folks on your street. Gotcha. There's the science.

[Undisputedtruth]

Chillaxed Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OK, thanks for clarifying. Both attitudes make no

> sense to me.

>

> For the record, I'm for M&S 'cause I'm lazy and

> like their Cook! ready-meal range, on balance more

> than I like Iceland's range.

Perhaps it's because I like cooking, understand what quality means and adverse to all forms of marketing. I'm happy in shopping at high and low end of the retail market. I'm afraid M&S does nothing for me in terms of price or quality.

I have more respect for Iceland shoppers than M&S as they're not influenced by huge advertising budgets.

[*Bob*]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> I have more respect for Iceland shoppers than M&S

> as they're not influenced by huge advertising

> budgets.

Are you talking about Iceland, the frozen food chain giant with the huge primetime television campaigns?