Free range meals on Lordship Lane?

[SeanMacGabhann]

ct said:

" it's all about personal choice"

And there is also talk from people about being vegetarian - as if this precludes them from the argument

Remember - many of the vegetables we consume are picked and harvested in harsh conditions where, instead of battery chickens, immigrant workers are housed sveeral to a room, often without basic ammenities

The argument isn't just about animal welfare - it's about how those of us who CAN choose to do the right thing, do or don't. If you choose not to then good luck to you but don't say "in an ideal world" or "I would if I could" etc -

At the top of the food chain, we have to take responsibility for how others, be it animals or workers, are treated. Ultimately COMPARED TO (and that's an important qualification) much of the world, even those on relatively low incomes (and again I'm talking relatively low - not poverty levels) have it good in this country. And CT is right - we have personal choice. But we also have a responsibility to make genuinely informed decisions and not just brush it off with an "oh look I jnow it's all dreadful and everything but..."

People everywhere are very quick to blame the government for this issue or that issue - petrol prices, relationships with dictators etc... as if they were in charge instead of governments things would be different. Well here is an opportunity where as an individual you CAN make a difference and do the right thing. Which doesn't make it easy. But it is do-able....

[PeckhamRose]

Agree with what ct Wrote: "Bob, eating well might not be expensive, but eating poorer quality food is less costly" and also our time is arranged differently these days, specially those with kids who earn very low wages and mortgages. it's all very well spouting right ons tuff but some of you are being a bit patronising and are clearly totally unaware of the living situations for the bottom 75% of the population. Of COURSE they would eat more healthily and better if they had education, time, money, (YES money). Still, I suppose they could stop smoking but could they afford the time to queue on a Saturday at the organic meat shop on Lordship Lane. Maybe they'll all start stealing chickens from the likes of Chav's back yard and the govt will have to bring in new laws to stop people stealing chickens from people's back yards.....

Be a bit more realistic would you - some of you - please?

Right, gas mark 6 for 2 hours, make sure all those bugs in the chicken are dead, and my breasts are coming along nicely thank you.....!

[*Bob*]

Ooooh the poor! What about the poor!

Rubbish. Thirty years ago 'the poor' were more than capable of making the best of what they could afford and turning-out good food on the most meagre of budgets and with even less time (leaving room as they had to for the sewing, log-chopping, hand-washing clothes etc etc etc that most people don't need to do these days)

People are lazy. They eat badly. They make excuses. That's all.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Sorry PeckhamRose - but I'm going to have to take a hatchet out here:

our time is arranged differently these days (by who exactly??? is it being done to us or do we choose to do these things)

right ons tuff (judgemental)

some of you are being a bit patronising(allegation)

living situations for the bottom 75% (data source please?)

Of COURSE they would eat more healthily and better if they had education, time, money, (YES money). (factually incorrect - plenty of people on this forum, for example who have got the money argue against the need to pay more as well)

queue on a Saturday at the organic meat shop on Lordship Lane (been discussed - queing time at Iceland often worse)

[Asset]

I'm sorry but I don't agree. It is not expensive to eat well. In fact it is probably more expensive in the long run to have a diet filled with processed food and fizzy drinks. As someone said earlier, you don't need to eat meat every day and it is only since the introduction of factory farming that it has become the norm. Prior to this it was normal to eat meat 2 or 3 times a week.

The argument about people with kids etc and little money doesn't wash. It is far cheaper to buy a load of veg and rice and pulses than crappy sausages every day.

I agree that people need more education and that time is seen to be an issue however the money ought not to be the problem.

However, as Muttley said this is a thread about restaurants on LL and we are hijacking it. There is nothing wrong with asking establishments where they source their products and it is to be encouraged.

[woodie]

PR usually they are just balloons of drugs.

[James]

Just to clarify, I don't think that being vegetarian "precludes me from the argument."

I still try to make ethical choices with my shopping. It just means I don't have the needless suffering of factory-farmed OR free-range animals on my conscience as well.

[Brendan]

I won?t go so far to say that it is reaches further than just where our food comes from but is all a big sociopolitical conspiracy to keep the population subdued and controlled by keeping them fat, apathetic and lazy. The proles are not a problem if they are to fat to get off their ikea sofas. The rest of the population is too busy trying to afford that new car, get that new job, afford that home in Spain and just that little bit paranoid about the threat of terrorism to challenge the status quo.

I won?t say that though because that is just crazy talk. I mean really. Who could believe that?

Anyway back to Free Range Eateries. I know that William Rose free range chicken breasts are actually pretty affordable compared to even to battery farmed from the supermarkets. Perhaps we could get one of the local Indians in touch with their supplier. The restaurant could then pilot their use in their curries or offer a free range option. Anybody know any of our local restaurateurs who would be open to this suggestion?

[peckhamboy]

James - I think Sean was suggesting that people think vegetables (not vegetarians) are precluded from the argument, and was pointing out that a lot of veg is picked by exploited migrant workers in v poor working conditions...

And PeckhamRose, I'm going to borrow Sean's hatchet I'm afraid:

Of COURSE they would eat more healthily and better if they had education, time, money, (YES money). Not necessarily true...

Still, I suppose they could stop smoking but could they afford the time to queue on a Saturday at the organic meat shop on Lordship Lane. Maybe not, but a lot of them might have time during the week...

Maybe they'll all start stealing chickens from the likes of Chav's back yard and the govt will have to bring in new laws to stop people stealing chickens from people's back yards..... Those laws would seem to be in place already...

my breasts are coming along nicely thank you.....! Thanks for letting us know, but there are other forums available for that sort of talk... :))

[Jeremy]

Some people are confusing the subject... I don't believe that eating healthily is necessarily linked with shopping ehtically.

And regarding the chickens... if I had to feed a family on ?30 a week or whatever, and I had the choice of a ?3 chicken or a ?6 chicken, I guarantee I would not buy the ?6 one! (in fact I would probably buy neither, I would probably get the minging bumper pack of cheapo drumsticks).

[*Bob*]

Britain seems to be obsessed with chicken. Chicken breasts especially.

Whenever people talk about the cost of feeding a family, it always seems to come down to how much chicken costs. Like chicken is the only food on sale.

[peckhamboy]

Unfortunately, the main driver behind consumer choice is likely to be economic, as Jeremy says, and battery hens will always be cheaper than free range:

1. You need more land per chicken for free range.

2. Free range chickens must be slaughtered later (around 55 days rather than 35-40), so it costs more to rear them.

But saying that, free range doesn't need to be "expensive" - WR meat for example tends to be comparable in price to (or not much more than) Sainsbo's 'normal' stuff. I'm often amazed by what I can get in there for less than a tenner. And the pork and beef in particular tastes vastly superior to the Sainsbury's non-free range stuff.

[RosieH]

chicken is the meat of the masses. ever since we worked out how to fit a few hundred thousand of the buggers in a shed. is dirt cheap is why.

and we've forgotten how to make recipes with cheap meat - casserole dishes should be government issue with income support

[James]

>>I think Sean was suggesting that people think vegetables (not vegetarians) are precluded from the argument, and was pointing out that a lot of veg is picked by exploited migrant workers in v poor working conditions...

Yes, I did get this! So we might as well all eat meat and make the animals suffer as well? Um, no. Not in my opinion.

[woodie]

yeah, before I say no more on this thread (phew eh?) in response to Rosie H , once whilst stuck in a queue in sainsbury's I made a quick calculation on how many actual chickens, bits of different chickens in the same pack etc just in that one branch.

Then multiply roughly how many other Sainsbury's. Then add tesco's, waitrose and so on, then high street butchers..goes on like that.

Its mind boggling figures you cant keep up with.Just in one day.

Also back on the boobs, its said that its only since Macdonalds made forray into japan that you now see many more tall japanese. Growth Hormone. mm tasty!

[SeanMacGabhann]

but woodie - now they have bigger boobs too!

Jeremy:

The thread was started because of ethics not health - my understanding of the original post anyway. And as for the minging drumsticks - gosh I wish you were my daddy..

and PeckhamRose - don't be frightened by my hatchet- it's only aimed at your argument not you. Do I still get a free ticket after my ideas for your liitle writer's block? ;-)

Seriously tho - it is an emotive subject. But everyone seems to want to reduce it to poverty. If poverty is that big an issue for all of us (and it should be) let's address that. But the issue here is the industrialisation of our food supply and the detrimental effect it has had on us as a society - up to and including how we have so many poor people who can't afford decent food (although the attitude of decent food is for well-off ponces doesn't bode well....)

[Domitianus]

Ladygooner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My friend lives in Thailand and her grand daughter

> who is 8 has recently started getting breasts.

> The doctors at the hospital say it is down to the

> amount of chicken she eats which has all those

> hormones in it.

We can assume therefore that every other child eating the same diet has also experienced early onset of puberty?

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And as for the minging drumsticks - gosh I

> wish you were my daddy..

Aha, but hopefully (if I ever have kiddies) my food budget would be more than ?30 a week! Was just trying to point out a situation which lots of families probably face.

[Asset]

Domitianus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ladygooner Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > My friend lives in Thailand and her grand

> daughter

> > who is 8 has recently started getting breasts.

> > The doctors at the hospital say it is down to

> th

> > amount of chicken she eats which has all those

> > hormones in it.

>

> We can assume therefore that every other child

> eating the same diet has also experienced early

> onset of puberty?

I read a very interesting book called 'My Year of Meat' by Ruth Ozbeck. It looked at this particular subject and it has been shown to be the case that some children are experiencing early puberty due to exposure to hormones used in the meat industry. It has also been shown that excessive oestrogen in our water supply - due to factory farming - is affecting fish.

[Brendan]

So any headway on free range chicken and eggs in eateries along LL? Anyone work/know someone who works in a restaurant?

[embellina]

I think I saw something on Springer's Wine Bar menu (in the window, so it was quick glance) that said they were committed to using free-range meat. Anyone else back this up?

And a quick point on the poverty thing. The most infuriating woman on the HFW programme was the one who used cost as the deciding factor, even after being shown how far a chicken could go. Mainly infuriating because she was so large and you couldn't help but think, "Spend a bit less cash on chocolate and fizzy drinks (or whatever) and you'll find the extra ?2 for the free-range chicken". Or was that just me?

I missed last night's episode - did she finally change her stubborn viewpoint that battery farming was acceptable?

[lozzyloz]

Jacks for one.

[Brendan]

Springer's Wine Bar you say. I have been meaning to go there for years now and never got around to it. Now I have an excuse.

It will have to wait 'til Feb though so I can have some wine.

[Cassius]

embellina Wrote:

>

> And a quick point on the poverty thing. The most

> infuriating woman on the HFW programme was the one

> who used cost as the deciding factor, even after

> being shown how far a chicken could go. Mainly

> infuriating because she was so large and you

> couldn't help but think, "Spend a bit less cash on

> chocolate and fizzy drinks (or whatever) and

> you'll find the extra ?2 for the free-range

> chicken". Or was that just me?

>

> I missed last night's episode - did she finally

> change her stubborn viewpoint that battery farming

> was acceptable?

Hugh found her in Tesco's and challenged her - she was still buying the cheap sh1te. I don't think anyone was going to change her mind - but at least she didn't spout off that anyone who didn't want to eat cheap chicken should just turn f***ing vegetarian like some of the chaps in the local.

Hope HFW life in Axminster is not totally ruined by his efforts and look forward to seeing what Jamie has on offer for us all on Friday.

[embellina]

Thanks Cassius. At least she was consistent in her principles I guess. The Jamie programme looks truly disgusting but will be watching.

Brendan, I live round the corner and haven't made it yet but has come highly recommended. A friend (whose food opinions I trust) ate there and said it was a truly superb meal. Not cheap but well worth it. It's on my list for sure.