Free range meals on Lordship Lane?

[Muttley]

When I read a book called 'Not on the label' a couple of years ago, I started getting queasy at the thought of buying chicken sandwiches and chicken curries unless I was confident of the source, and I reduced my chicken consumption by perhaps 75%. Hugh Fearnley-Wotsit's series on Channel 4 has just reinforced it - I can no longer bring myself to eat chicken unless I know that it's at very least free range. Just the thought of regular factory farmed chicken now makes me nauseous.

So, where on Lordship Lane can I buy a chicken meal and be confident that the chicken I'm eating saw daylight and had room to move? Tandoori Nights? Franklins? I'll hazard a guess NOT Finger Lick'n Chick'n.

Can the forum produce a list of East Dulwich restaurants that genuinely offer 'free range' quality and nothing less? I will happily give them custom, and there are probably many others who would do the same. The alternative is almost too disgusting to think about.

[PreferToRemainAnon]

Muttley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So, where on Lordship Lane can I buy a chicken

> meal and be confident that the chicken I'm eating

> saw daylight and had room to move? Tandoori

> Nights? Franklins? I'll hazard a guess NOT

> Finger Lick'n Chick'n.

Cue usual class rant from Lousia, Dee et al............. :'(

Sadly, I think that those of us who do care about what we eat and where it comes still struggle when eating out. (rather than shovelling in the Iceland feed a family for a fiver that is made from God knows what) Hopefully Hugh et al will have some luck, but judging by the hard time that Jamie Oliver had changing peoples attitudes re school dinners, I reckon it'll be some time yet before we can eat out and know the origin of what we are eating.

With a bit of luck, though, some of ED's restauranteurs will pop up here to let us know.....

Anon

[Shu.Kurimu.Sensei]

Well I haven't eaten any chicken in about 12 years after seeing a lot of the journals my better half was reading about the levels of contamination in poultry and European farming methods. In fact I hardly eat meat at all these days, and that is pretty much quality fish from decent sources.

Regarding the restaurants on Lordship Lane, have seen far too many staff from eateries of all levels of "quality" walking out of Somerfields with a bag of chicken or other meat products to ever think of dining locally.

[SeanMacGabhann]

As Prefertoremainanon says, we can expect many people to weigh in on this one

I've long weighed in against industrially produced meat and am pretty depressed at the level of debate supporting the whole thing. I've checked out some of the TV forums about the Hugh programme and it's pretty depressing to see how much Axminster has changed - ie not a lot apart from holding a grudge against HFW

I think there is a mindset which goes "yes I'm well aware of cramped conditions, no daylight etc" without understanding what the reality of that is. Even watching the tv show, you are removed from the noise and the stench.

As for money, naturally it's going to be a factor. But it's also an excuse for many. I know plenty of people on min wage and dole money who wouldn't eat industrial meat but for others it's easier to just say "it's all very well for you you can afford it". Those lottery tickets don't pay for themselves. And it's not just financially challenged people with excuses... PLENTY of the well off in the area love a "bargain" as well. To my mind, in MOST cases, it isn't about money - it's just that many people don't genuinely care about the issue

As for eating out locally - A couple of places on LL say on the menu that all their meat is from William Rose which should mean at least free-range - Liqourice is one and I've been in there when one of the guys from Rose brought a delivery around. Of course a place that buys good meat doesn't mean they know how to cook it well..but that's a different debate

[woodie]

M`ny years ago, 89/90 i think it was i was asked to provide music/noise for channel 4 'critical eye' called Pandoras Box.it was about industriallised meat farming and poultry. I had one of those big old pneumatic video machines installed in my house.

Every day Id get up have a coffee and drag myself in to get started. Started meant having to view 2 hours of the most revolting footage Ive ever seen. The program last night looked glamourous compared to that.

What would happen is the film crew and team would be shown 'barns'. these however were 'showbarns'. barns also means huge warehouse sized rooms. So, a couple of guys at the back would break off, as they were carrying secret cameras. They would break in to the other 'barns' , this was the footage that was used. of course, the tv show was only 40 minutes or so but we had to work with the full length. Dude Hugh will in no way, being a well known name, be allowed to film in the places the public 'dont need to see'. Show barns had a few not very well looking chickens(1?), the real thing had countless.Really sick ones, dead ones, mutant ones. It was hell on earth and I couldnt bear to do the job I'd initially been excited to be a part of.Sean's so right when he says we are removed from the stench et all.

The industrial 'killing machine' that actually takes the birds out (kills em) has to be seen to be believed. 99 percent of people would not eat this stuff if they actually saw with their own eyes . Its as disgusting as disgusting could be.

Thats just chickens. Ducks is as bad. oog!

This 'pandoras box' also predicted something awful was about to happen. It did. CJD. Who in their right mind would feed sheep parts to cows? At that time john selwyn gummer was completely to blame, hence the shot of him feeding his kids burgers defiantly in front of the media. He helped make the deals. He could have said eh? this is insane. But actually he pushed it through and went off to church a good citizen.

At the screening of the show, a bloke turned round said to me 'untill all this stops mans inhumanity to man will not cease either'. Meaning, if this is how we treat animals,then if we call others 'animals' cruelty is is 'normal'.

Obviously Im not a meat man, i also worked in an abbatoir once, that did it for me when i was 18. Im lateish 40's and very well and strong etc. Can carry my own bodyweight so just in case you think ;"but youve GOT to eat this chicken or youll die of flu or something' youre wrong. My children though have CHEAP sausages and so on at school and ham and chicken etc.

Dont think theyd want me suggesting a 'school trip' for school would they. A reality trip. By the way, the bits too cancerous for people are thrown into a pile for the dog food manufactuers. Lets not forget that huge market right there.

Just think how much money would be saved if people ate just say 3 meat (not that theyd have to) meals a week. Not 3 a day.

Far less methane, illness, less land needed. Id rather they didnt at all,however thats way to extreme for most.

Personally I thought Jamies school meals was genius. Good on him. I wasnt a fan till then. Any of them cheffies.. Hughs having a try but Im sorry hes not gone far enough.

[Cassius]

I remember Pandora's Box - one of THE most horrifying tv programmes I've ever seen. Sadly some people seem to have no feelings for other human beings so to expect them to have feelings for animals is probably an expectation too much.

I used to love meat, but have no desire for my excess protein to be the cause of any animals' suffering, so gave it up and now I don't think my stomach would cope with it.

I thought Hugh FW did a good job but he will either be preaching to the converted or been seen as a posh git who doesn't understand the budgetary constraints of the normal family.

[Christopher]

Many of the places that serve food on Lordship Lane (I hesitate to use the word restaurant about places like Liquorish & The Magdala) have stated on menus that they buy their meat from william Rose - and WR definitely do supply to trade - so they should be free range, no?

[Ladygooner]

My friend lives in Thailand and her grand daughter who is 8 has recently started getting breasts. The doctors at the hospital say it is down to the amount of chicken she eats which has all those hormones in it.

[lozzyloz]

Did anybody watch Kill It, Cook It, Eat Iton BBC 3 the other night? It discussed a lot of the issues raised here regarding animal cruelty in food production. Very telling though was when they interviewed the farmers who raised the Kid Goats. They couldn't make up their minds on whether they were rearing the Kids in a "happy" environment for the animals benefit or for commercial reasons. It seemed they wouldn't slaughter a Kid under 3 months because they wanted it to have a nice life but then again if a customer wanted a younger one for a Greek Wedding then it was OK. And there is the paradox. Commercial food production versus the demands of customers. Twenty years ago people new little or nothing about battery farms etc. Then when the truth was exposed via programmes like Pandora's box the public (with increasing disposable income) began to take notice. The WRONG reaction is to instantly become vegetarian (in my view) but instead to be choosy (like Muttley, Woody etc) and force commerce to change or go out of business. We live in a Capitalist society so profit is the best weapon at our disposal. Don't eat ANY meat unless you know its provenance. Eat less meat but better quality. Unfortunately the victims of this success will be the very people already providing us with meat that has been properly reared, such as WR and Libretto's, because the supermarkets and their suppliers will respond once the balance tips towards battery farming becoming very bad for business. I hope that's not the case.

[*Bob*]

Yes Sean.. Money is always the excuse and at least 75% of the time it's a poor excuse. Even when I was on income support (cue violins) it didn't take long to work-out that if I dropped the fags I could still eat reasonably well.

It's an embarrassment that British supermarkets still do a roaring trade in their 'basics' product lines; that our national cheese is numbered 1 to 5 (for idiots) and that Iceland are proud to advertise on TV their sack of 100 sausage rolls for a couple of quid - fronted by someone who looks like she already did a bag of them in car park before the shoot.

As regards restaurants, I agree it's good to know where the food was sourced, but seeing 'organic' plastered all over a menu would just serve to irritate: the word is becoming a bit of a joke now.

[Muttley]

A simple action that anyone who cares about this can take is next time when ordering from Mr Liu, or Coriander or wherever saying: 'before I order, can I check if the chicken is free range or not?'. Not that I'd necessarily trust the answer, but if this gets asked a lot, it will begin to register with restaurants that a lot of locals are concerned about this. I'm not saying every restaurant should respond, but I do want to know there's at least one Chinese, one Thai, one Indian, and one gastropub that is serving meat that isn't factory-farmed. Even the restaurants that claim to be "organic" (urgh) should be challenged occasionally to see what they mean by that.

[RosieH]

Quite right Sean.

A lot of the problem lies in our expectation to have meat at every meal (hastily pointing out when I say "we" I mean the British populace, not "we" the enlightened folks on EDF). If that is the case, then free range is out of the price range of many, even cutting down on the fags and the scratch cards.

I don't want to sound like some old reactionary Daily Mail reader, but decent education about food in school might help - people might be able to create a menu that doesn't rely on a 20-pack of slimy chicken breasts and a jar of Chicken Tonight. With a bit more education and consequently variety, there should be significantly less need for battery-produced meat.

[Brendan]

If you really want to make a positive impact on this world (and sort your karma out) you should stop eating unfarmed fish. Feeling all good about yourself because you only eat free range chicken and then shoveling un-farmed fish down your throat is not lowering your impact on our world. Battery farmed chicken is an unpleasant business and one that produces cheap but low quality food but at least it is a sustainable resource. Fish is an unsustainable resource raped from our oceans.

I am not condoning it and I am strongly against factory farming but I just wanted to add some perspective.

[KalamityKel]

personally Im concerned about free range veg...

No seriously I can see ur points but at the end of the day it is meat and if u really have issues about the creatures welfare (which eventually ends up on ur dinner place)... Mayb the vegetarian option is safer?

[ct]

I have to say I'm a total organic free range convert, but I cannot agree with all of these statements that 75% of people wrongly use money as an excuse. At the end of the day we're simply saying pay more for these animals which have been treated better for their very short life before they are stunned, slaughtered and killed. Yes, the organic and free-range can taste better but ultimately the pay more get better products works right through the shopping basket and beyond - a ?5 So Organic bottle of Red wine is not going to taste better than a ?30 bottle of wine made from organic grapes, a ?7k car is not going to perform as well as a ?35k car.

A organic 1.75kg chicken at good ole sainsburys costs ?9.61, a free range ?7 and a "normal" chicken ?4.09 - if you start multiplying that by say 4 times a month then the difference very quickly starts to mount up - then do this with all the other meats too that a family of say 2 adults 2 children would consume in a month. Surely very very few people are going to risk their finances by purchasing food thats been looked after better and tastes better. We can all be judgemental about dont smoke, dont drink, dont buy lottery tickets, but at the end of the day it's all about personal choice.

[James]

Why not just go vegetarian?

[KalamityKel]

well said ct :)

[*Bob*]

Sorry.. eating well is not expensive.

If people can't be arsed to eat well, then they should just say so.. not blame it on having to pay a couple of quid extra for a chicken and then spend a fiver a day each on fags, booze and idiot cards.

[ct]

Bob, eating well might not be expensive, but eating poorer quality food is less costly

[KalamityKel]

Bob my dear... dont b over generalising. Yes there are families out there that u describe - spending money on fags, booze and the likes when they "should" be spending it on other more important things. I use "should" VERY Loosely as it is down to choice. However, there are families out there that really cannot afford an extra quid here or there.

[RosieH]

a tin of plum tomatoes, an onion and a couple of bulbls of garlic is a hell of a lot cheaper than a jar of Ragu (and doesn't contain any random nasties) - eating better quality food can be less costly if you're prepared to make it yourself

[KalamityKel]

Those with 5 kids running around may think differently tho :p

[*Bob*]

Of course - there are always cheaper ways of doing everything in life. You can rummage through a bin and get food for free if you want to.

My point is, there is no excuse for anyone eating badly - regardless of income. Laziness and lack of education are the enemies of good eating..

I made dinner last night - ingredients all purchased in so-called poncey food shops on LL.

Small piece of pancetta from the deli and a small pot of cream

Bit of pecorino from the Cheese Block and half a packet of decent pasta

Three tomatoes

Half a dried chilli

Time to prepare and cook - 20 minutes.

.

Family Meal - total cost ?2.90

Very tasty. Cheap as chips.

[Muttley]

Hey, this thread is about EATING OUT in Lordship Lane. If you want to eat cheaply, then surely it's a case of buying your ingredients (cheap chicken if you want) and eating at home. My concern is that on those occasions when I want to order a takeaway curry etc., I want to know that the meal I buy uses the ingredients I would want to use at home. Please don't divert this conversation onto domestic choices - people are welcome to buy what they want from Sainsburys.

[KalamityKel]

U could always ask the chef etc no?