London Mayor

[DulwichDeviant]

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[Alan Medic]

The problem with this country is not just that people can't spell.

[DulwichDeviant]

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[Marmora Man]

  Quote

People have fought, been imprisoned and died for the right to belong to a TRADE UNION - a right still denied to many in oppressive regimes so everyone SHOULD join a trade union... No?... oh alright then. I suppose it's a choice thing.

In UK everyone may join a union - the fact that less and less choose to do so is, perhaps, a reflection of Trade Union's behaviour in the recent past, the generally good employment legislation encated over the last century (many as a result of TU lobbying). Today Trade Unions are largely irrelevant, only dominant in the public sector and often appear to be something closer to a politically motivated protection racket - "fighting" for their members to be given preferential, taxpayer funded, status in defiance of economic reality.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Took GCHQ a while to get there.

[Chippy Minton]

Funny how some people on the one hand promote the idea of trade unions being irrelevant, yet on the other hand bemoan their continued influence on working practices and ability to "hold us to ransom."

It's a human right to belong to a trade union. The decline in membership has nothing to do with their "behaviour in the recent past" (what does this even mean?) It's because of things like the decline in UK manufacturing, globalisation, the shift to more transient employment, migration and most recently the state of the economy.

[maxxi]

Marmora Man Wrote:

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> People have fought, been imprisoned and died for

> the right to belong to a TRADE UNION - a right

> still denied to many in oppressive regimes so

> everyone SHOULD join a trade union... No?... oh

> alright then. I suppose it's a choice thing.

>

> In UK everyone may join a union - the fact that

> less and less choose to do so is, perhaps, a

> reflection of Trade Union's behaviour in the

> recent past, the generally good employment

> legislation encated over the last century (many as

> a result of TU lobbying). Today Trade Unions are

> largely irrelevant, only dominant in the public

> sector and often appear to be something closer to

> a politically motivated protection racket -

> "fighting" for their members to be given

> preferential, taxpayer funded, status in defiance

> of economic reality.

Kind of muddying my point there MM - I was using the example to point out that DD's argument (that people fought and died to get the vote so people SHOULD always vote) wasn't as clear cut as it sounded.

People shouldn't vote out of gratitude for the sacrifice of the past especially as not voting can make more of a point in an age where democracy - such as it is - has become so debased and decadent.

For many people - whether the zealots on the forum like it or not - voting is (as you put it) 'largely irrelevant' to their lives just as trades unions are.

The arguments for voting as an imperative are ideological and based on theory (like what happens if we all jump up and down at the same time) and we all know the reality is (in this country) a two-party state with fringes that will plough the same furrows it has ploughed for decades regardless until and unless something cataclysmic changes that.

[woodrot]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Took GCHQ a while to get there.

Someone rang that bell and the slavering began

[DulwichDeviant]

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[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Only because I remember it so well. I was working at the MOD at the time and usually mild-mannered civil servant boffins were spitting something rotten.

[DulwichDeviant]

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