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Gordon Brown

fish

By fish
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citizenED

citizenED

Posted
Posted
But guys, a-l-t-e-r-n-a-t-i-v-e-s? You have to ask yourselves, what was the alternative in 1997? Another term of the Tories. I would agree that Blair was a disappointment but part of this was becuase he came in on such a crest of a wave. The whole country celebrated! That euphoria was not imagined. It was something tangible and now, ten years on we have a Labour party in power, economic stability, loads of welfare money and lots of rules regarding peoples rights. A fundamentally better situation. "New" Labour means plenty of spin, but it is the spin that allows them to put in policies that make real social change. Brown has had an awful start to his tenure - but when you start to think of the alternatives he will climb out of it.
Marmora Man

Marmora Man

Posted
Posted

SimonM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >> Blair was a master, as was Mrs T at her peak.

>

> And they both dragged us unnecessarily into

> wars.....which Brown has yet to do (also being

> objective of course)


And which were the unnecessary wars of Mrs Thatcher?


The Falklands - political / intelligence cock up to allow them to be invaded unexpectedly - an act of aggression that was against international law. A proper, and well conducted, military response was carried out to recover the islands that had been invaded by another nation.


The First Gulf War - Iraq had invaded its neighbouring state of Kuwait, another act of aggression against international law. Having recovered Kuwait the war stopped and the Allied forces did not carry the war into Iraq.


Blair's initial wars were also justified - Kosovo, Sierra Leone. He went too far and followed the US into an unnnecessary and probably illegal war in Iraq. Afghanistan too.

mockney piers

mockney piers

Posted
Posted

The Falklands. - FFS, we stole it off Argentina in the first place, I know possession is nine/tenths but it wasn't Gibralter, it's not something we got by treaty, we stole it pure and simple and they want it back. They still want it back even if they're aware that the Junta acted stupidly.


The First Gulf War - Justifiable if entirely predictable and avoidable.


Blair's initial wars were also justified - I'll grant you Sierra Leone, a low key intervention, classic gunboat diplomacy in fact. I can't grant you Kosovo though; by that token the US would have been allowed a massive bombing campaign of our infrastructure in order to stop our policy in Northern Ireland. The huge exodus was caused by a huge fear of a Serbian backlash to the Nato campaign.

Plus I don't see much call for intervention in places where there really are terrible goings on, in Sudan, in Zimbabwe, Burma, Colombia...I could go on.

Nato was on the brink of disappearing up its own arsehole, especially with France and Germany pushing for an EU army as mid-long term replacement of NATO, and Kosovo served as an expedient way to justify and maintain the alliance. The US doesn't want to lose its influence in Europe and the UK punches above its weight in NATO; interesting that it was Clinton and Blair that really pushed it.

Brendan

Brendan

Posted
Posted

The thing with the Falklands is that most it their population see themselves as British and would rather be British than Argentinean. This does lend a little credence to the maintenance of British rule.* But then surely the UK has responsibility to intervene in Zimbabwe as it was only 50 odd years ago that these people we considered ?subjects of her majesty?.


* Although I?m sure Britain wouldn?t go to war exclusively over the welfare of a few hundred farmers. A lot of it has to do international strategy and also arrogance (see Northern Ireland).

mockney piers

mockney piers

Posted
Posted

Quite Brendan, I'm sure the (ex)inhabitants of Diego Garcia have quite a bit to say about our love of our island subjects when international strategy comes into play. No coincidence of course that there's oil and gas under them there Falkland Islands.

I sympathise with the Falkland Islanders, but it's always the civilians who suffer in the games of the powers.

Brendan

Brendan

Posted
Posted
Diego Garcia, just another example of the fact that while individuals may not be above the law our government certainly is. Now if we lived in some despotic African fiasco this would be expected but in Britain we continually convince ourselves that our, increasingly unrepresentative, government is obliged to act legally. Then when they break the law or behave in a criminal fashion we just gloss over it or pretend it didn?t happen or was ?for the best?.
mockney piers

mockney piers

Posted
Posted

A British court has ruled the forced depopulation illegal and granted the Chagos rights to compensation (?400 each given to Mauritius to house them). Our very own high court of justice has declared it illegal, the government appealed last year and lost but so far...nada. So much for our ethical foreign policy.


John Pilger's article and documentary

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1027.htm

mockney piers

mockney piers

Posted
Posted

Yes Prime Minister should be made compulsory viewing at schools. It's soooo insightful, and as you say, very little has changed, well, barring the influence of the civil service.

Today the Humphrey character would be a spiky-haired fuckstick from Andersen Consulting.

dulwichmum

dulwichmum

Posted
Posted

I just love Gordon Brown, he looks just the type of daddy I see at the school gate every morning. He is not charasmatic, but he gets on with his job - no matter what is thrown at him, and he has had a lot thrown at him. He is not a spin-meister (did I spell even that properly?). I think he looks terribly capable and cerebral (swoon)...


David Cameron looks more like the manager of Somerfield or one of those religious people who knock on my front door to ask me to read their special magazine than the leader of a country. His hair is far too shiny and I can smell his aftershave from here.


Gordon Brown really is a dream boat. I bet he wears reading glasses and has a cardigan with big buttons.

RosieH

RosieH

Posted
Posted

I went to a shindig at his gaff. well a reception anyway - his suit was terrfically sharp, he looked delicious and he was terribly charming.


the look was only marred when wifie Sarah ran in in cardie and slippers, chasing after the child who had escaped and was hiding under a chair.


hmm, even the broodingly dour Gordon Brown can't control his offspring in public

dulwichmum

dulwichmum

Posted
Posted

Indeed RosieH, your contribution makes Mr Brown even more attractive - the fact that his child can run riot and his wife forgets to run a comb through her hair. He is a normal dad. He is not air brushed. The best managers I have ever had are authoritative, and to be honest - mildly eccentric with photographic memories. I believe that Mr Brown could be such a man. YUM! I bet he dances badly and lets his arms swing about all over the place in a chaotic manner when on the dance floor at weddings.


Clearly I would never ever lust after a married man, especially with my being a married lady, but I just love Gordon and Gordon sorts.


Mr Mockney... (sigh and swoon) - I fear I may faint!

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