Goose Green Dog Poo -

[first mate]

Yes it was but some, myself included, thought it looked pretty ugly. I hope we can have a really proper go at rallying support and effort among dog owners to make a big change. There has not been any sort of campaign or real intervention before and perhaps Some funding could go towards this. Before fencing off areas and taking out wholesale bans we should have a go at galvanising owners to be much more vigilant around their own behaviour as well as other people

[rch]

Yes, I vaguely remember dogs being restricted to a small fenced off section of GG, but I suspect that this couldn't be enforced in the long run.

Goose Green has long been part of South Camberwell ward (which is now Champion Hill ward), but now that the ward boundaries have all changed, it's now in East Dulwich/Goose Green ward.

But I think that first mate and Penguin are right... the community is going to have to start sticking together and working together more actively on a LOT of things. Goose Green dog poo is as good a start as anything...

Let's keep posting updates.

[Lynne]

There was some info. about the local council not empowered to fence part of it off, (thus wasting lots of money on railings,) as permission was needed from central gov.

I may be wrong, but I think that's what we were told at the time. It was great while it lasted. People were actually sitting on the grass.

[Upwind]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I suggested that maybe he could patrol Goose Green

> in the afternoons during the summer when more

> people/children are using the park,

>

> If professional dog walkers are the issue, as

> suggested above, then patrolling when they are

> about (often in my experience of other green areas

> in ED in the mid mornings) might be more

> effective. I'd guess they were more likely to

> ignore the common decencies of picking up poo when

> fewer people were about. The issue is more picking

> up the poo in the first place, not warning those

> with children to avoid it. Patrolling when they

> can be seen by the Goose Green using public might

> be good for their profile, but less likely to

> catch the miscreants, in my view.

The suggestion by the OP was that it was individual dog owners not paying attention rather than anyone else. Not sure there are many, if any, people walking large groups of dogs on the green anyway.

PS. The people walking several dogs for money are very seldom professional, in that they have no qualification for their trade. I believe they should be referred to as commercial walkers.

[KidKruger]

Yes that was my original suggestion Upwind, and I still hold that view.

Picked-up 3x rogue poos on Monday and 7x yesterday.

Steaming dog toilet right through the summer.

[tallulah71]

As the OP suggests it's probably, more often than not, individuals on their phone, jogging or chatting to their mate - all of whom have their dogs behind them and therefore out of sight. I stopped 5 women in one week. One on the street who had no poo bags and gave me a mouthful when I stopped her after she allowed her dog to do it by someones gate on Underhill Road, the rest in nunhead cemetery who all said, "but he's already done one". One woman lat her cockapoo go just outside the Galleon hairdressers. Surely people who take their dogs out know they're not doing it to just get some fresh air? Plus I'm not sure any commercial dog-walkers take their dogs to GG; it'd be a pretty boring hour for them if they did...

[Froglander]

Upwind Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Penguin68 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I suggested that maybe he could patrol Goose

> Green

> > in the afternoons during the summer when more

> > people/children are using the park,

> >

> > If professional dog walkers are the issue, as

> > suggested above, then patrolling when they are

> > about (often in my experience of other green

> areas

> > in ED in the mid mornings) might be more

> > effective. I'd guess they were more likely to

> > ignore the common decencies of picking up poo

> when

> > fewer people were about. The issue is more

> picking

> > up the poo in the first place, not warning

> those

> > with children to avoid it. Patrolling when they

> > can be seen by the Goose Green using public

> might

> > be good for their profile, but less likely to

> > catch the miscreants, in my view.

>

> The suggestion by the OP was that it was

> individual dog owners not paying attention rather

> than anyone else. Not sure there are many, if any,

> people walking large groups of dogs on the green

> anyway.

>

> PS. The people walking several dogs for money are

> very seldom professional, in that they have no

> qualification for their trade. I believe they

> should be referred to as commercial walkers.

There aren?t any professional qualifications required to be a dog walker. So many people have jumped on that bandwagon.

[KidKruger]

Seeing as the dogs shitting all over Goose Green are in their owners? care as far as I can see, dog walkers are getting a pretty hard time on this thread considering they haven?t done anything !

They?ve been accused of being the culprits, now their ability to be professional appears to be being questioned.

Meanwhile I picked-up 3x rogue poos yesterday (one massive), and 2x today.

[Angelina]

so it's definitely owners and not dog walkers then.

are you a "dog walker"?

[KidKruger]

?so it's definitely owners and not dog walkers then?

= seems to be.

What?s your point ?

?are you a "dog walker"??

Owner, as per my posts above.

What?s your point ?!

[rch]

By coincidence, I spoke to one of the park managers who oversees the parks in the south of the borough (including Goose Green).

Firstly, I asked him to inform the park wardens that mid-morning would be a better time to patrol than mid-afternoon, as per our above discussion. So, this will get passed on.

But the manager told me that he personally does monthly inspections and hasn't noticed any dog poo issues, so he asked me if there was a section that had particularly noticeable problems. If we can demonstrate a regular issue, then the manager can request for a machine to pick up poo on a regular basis. Ironically, you guys are probably improving the poo situation on GG by picking up yourselves, which then means that the inspections are negative.

The manager suggested that residents could email complaints to [email protected] whereupon he'll monitor the situation.

I also asked if maybe they could put signage up to notify dog walkers and owners that they have to pick up their dogs' poo, so he's going to look into this. There are various restrictions on signage in parks, but I suggested that maybe he could at least put a paper notice in the community noticeboards.

He also confirmed that the Friends of Goose Green had ceased, so our ad hoc communications are the only way forward at the moment.

Lastly, he noted that free dog poo bags were available at certain council facilities, such as the foyer of the Francis Peek Centre in Dulwich Park, but we don't have much in the way of council facilities near Goose Green in East Dulwich... the Leisure Centre is too far away in one direction and the Grove Vale Library is too far in the other direction. We need a Community Hub in Lordship Lane!

Will keep updating...

[goldilocks]

In the village in Yorkshire where my parents live, the council provides free poo bags just attached to a dispenser on the lamppost at the entrance to the pathway where the dog walkers go - its not manned, just seemingly refilled routinely.

I can't really imagine though that the sheer amount of dog poo in Goose green is anything to do with people not remembering a bag or that signs telling people to pick up after their dog will be effective. People know they should and choose not to. Not helped by the fact that Goose Green being essentially a dog toilet vindicates them in leaving it there.

I find it hard to believe that the manager hasn't noticed a problem with Goose Green - its so consistently full of dog poo that we never use it as a park any more!

Essentially without enforcement, eg fining people and following through, appealing to such people's sense of social responsibility doesn't feel like it will be successful.

[Angelina]

In the four months we've used Goose Green, I'be seen one poo that hasn't been picked up

[KidKruger]

That doesn?t mean anything Angelina if I?ve picked-up 20+ per week recently !

And I wasn?t searching for them.

[KidKruger]

...picked up 2 about an hour ago.

Is there a Specsavers on LL ?!

[tallulah71]

Yes I'm not quite sure what Angelina's agenda is re: dog-walkers as opposed to dog-owners. And given you've only seen one poo not picked up, not really sure why this thread is of any interest to you whatsoever.

And to clear up once and for all the point being made ad nauseam about dog walkers not being 'professional':

There are many dog-walkers who have backgrounds in Animal Management, Dog Behaviour, Dog Training and other practical experiences necessary to make one an effective and in my view, professional dog-handler. Of course, not all have undertaken any qualifications because you don't need any to take on someone's dog. Anyone who thinks it's an easy job should try it one day.

And yes - there is a Certificate in Dog-Walking which can be undertaken at the Institute of British Canine Studies. So let's stop bashing people who are - on the whole - doing a good job, and serving the community of dog-lovers who'd otherwise, need to leave their pooches at home for 8 hours plus per day.

[Angelina]

touchy (also petty)

"Let's stop bashing people who....."

1) don't agree with you

2) are responsible dog owners who need to use the green (various reasons)

and stop the agenda to get the green banned from dog walking.

There are more grown up responses to both of the above; education , availability of resources - a number of suggestions have been made in the above posts

[Penguin68]

Goose Green is a (very small) amenity used by many people, and in particular people with children. Dog poo (whether deposited by dogs in the care of their owners or in the care of commercial dog walkers (however well qualified to look after dogs)) is unacceptable if not immediately collected and disposed of appropriately. If those walking dogs cannot or will not collect their dog's poo (even if it's only a small minority of those walking dogs) they should reasonably expect that their use of Goose Green should be curtailed.

I'm sorry, I have no agenda to 'ban' dogs as such, but if those taking responsibility for dogs don't act responsibly, then I don't see why the health and enjoyment of others not choosing to cover the amenity with sh1t doesn't deserve a great deal more respect. If those walking dogs don't want to be banned then they should (all) act as responsible citizens - and huge credit to those who tidy-up after their less responsible peers. But they shouldn't have to.

[tallulah71]

Yes Penguin - I totally agree with you but as a responsible dog-owner, I don't know what the solution is. We can't start banning dogs from all green spaces because a few ignorant people are irresponsible. I never use GG so I'm not qualified to comment on the extent of the matter, but I know well - it's a lovely space - especially for families and their children to picnic etc and that would put me off going there, for sure.

[Penguin68]

We can't start banning dogs from all green spaces because a few ignorant people are irresponsible.

And I wouldn't want to do that, but Goose Green is so small (and such a valuable green plot just there) that maybe banning dogs on the Green itself might help. Or fining anyone allowing their dog to soil the Green at all (as the idea of a whole family, with dog, picnicking is attractive). The green space is so limited around there that allowing it to be just another dog toilet (like the Rye, and Dulwich Park etc. etc.) may be becoming too much.

[KidKruger]

Yes these are my thoughts Penguin (and I appreciated your earlier post BTW).

Dog fines won't work, it's too costly to do full-time for GG and therefore won't be policed.

Free poo bags won't work because that won't make people WATCH their dogs (or give a damn about fouling if it's someone who's fully aware but just doesn't care). Anyone who can afford a dog can afford doggy bags.

As far as priority use of Goose Green goes, my view is:

Family/Individual/Non-Shit-Fouling Users > Park Users Leaving Dog Shit

It's a no-brainer.

Putting GG back into use of the majority is simply aligning to the this prioritisation.

Communities have always suffered / been penalised for the actions of a few thoughtless or selfish people, currently the majority of users are having to put up with dog-fouling from a small minority of users.

If GG becomes a dog-free zone, the minority would suffer / be penalised for the benefit of the majority (HAVING HAD YEARS TO DEMONSTRATE THEIR COLLECTIVELY ABILITY TO MANAGE THEIR DOGS - AND FAILED).

What amazes me is, even in the face of forum users confirming they avoid / have avoided the park for years, dog owners trying to either deflect blame on other kinds of park users such as paid dog walkers, complain how much they need the park, or deflect to issues such as broken glass and litter. This just demonstrates the sense of self-entitlement at play.

QUESTION: How many dog owner park users have started picking-up rogue (or 'rouge', as I read on another thread - Thanks AD !!) poo since this thread started (when, presumably, for many dog owners, it was a complete revelation that fouling is happening) ?

1st: pick-up rogue dog poo on GG, 2nd: complain on this thread about how unfair a dog ban would be.

...I'm a dog owner disgusted at the frequency I see dog shit in a public space, where (for whatever reason, who cares) privilege is being taken for granted.

GG is a small space which won't hurt to be made dog-free.

Imagine a place you can go, roll around on the grass in the sun, knowing you won't be stinking of dog shit before you leave - wouldn't that be nice ?!

[Lynne]

At a public meeting years ago the dog owners blamed foxes

[ed_pete]

Problem is KK, as you say above a fine for offenders wouldn't work as there wouldn't be a full time warden. If a ban was put in place, it also couldn't be easily enforced and I suspect there would still be a significant minority that would ignore it and let their dog's use it as a toilet anyway.

[KidKruger]

you're right ed_pete, it would be hard to enforce.

But I guess my view is that's just the next part of the battle to ensure people can be free to enjoy the park without dealing with dog shit.

Like speeding limits around here, hard to enforce.

But with help of locals should be do-able.

[tallulah71]

Agree with all of that, KK. I also think the major problem is people perhaps using the space at night and times when they can't be seen or caught out. I challenged a man letting his huge bulldog relieve himself at someone's gate, whilst he consulted his phone - and just got a mouthful of abuse. These people just don't care - and I'll bet largely aren't on here.