Electric two wheelers

[malumbu]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere but here are some (hopefully considered) thoughts.

Electric scooters can be a bit of a nightmare for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians. They will have their place but are currently neither road or pavement legal - I expect the supplier doesn't inform most purchasers of this. No enforcement so hopefully sooner of later they will become legal but have some controls.

Power on demand pushbikes - throttle and go. Wrong wrong wrong. Not classed as electric motorbike, not road legal, bloody dangerous. Again no enforcement and buyers may not be aware.

Pedal-assisted pushbikes. Had a go on one a couple of years ago. Great fun, like having somebody push you. I see these as being great for those with less mobility, or a particularly long commute. But seeing fitter younger people than me doing similar journeys is odd.

And the issue with all of these is that cutting you up on the inside at speed is so dodgy and waiting to cause an accident.

Electric skateboards - just weird. Segways - niche product that I don't want to see on the road.

Over to you.

[bobbsy]

I think anything that is used on the road, that is powered, should be registered.

[first mate]

Agree it is an issue but then speeding cyclists will also cut up those who are slower.

[fishbiscuits]

I don't really get the problem with electric scooters on the road or cycle lanes. They go a similar speed to a bicycle. (faster than a slow bike, but slower than a fit/keen cyclist). Why shouldn't they go wherever a bike can go?

[first mate]

Well, I suppose that is my point really. There are impatient, speeders on just about any vehicle and they take risks. It is perhaps the mindset that needs adjusting and not the type of vehicle. I have felt intimidated by 'fellow' car drivers and by 'fellow' cyclists, by scooter/ motorbike drivers too, you name it. At source is the same issue, The person is in a hurry and demands you go faster or they overtake you in whatever manner they choose.

[Captain Marvel]

Electric scooters are all over Europe and everyone enjoys them. Here, they are technically illegal but so far the government/cops aren't doing anything about it.

I foresee that the spoilsports will spoil the sport though. Helmets, tax and insurance and hefty fines for transgression are sadly inevitable. We're that kind of society

[Springer]

Woman killed in battersea today on a electric scooter

[Seabag]

Every city in Europe has these, I?ve ridden them, but my son did come off his on a wet corner (on a designated pathway I should add) and there?s no doubt that these things are beyond a fad.

How we regulate them I?m not sure, but most probably on a cycle path is the way forward.

If you?re able to, try one when you?re away. Once you ride it, they make sense.

[Blah Blah]

I have no issue with them and I cycle everywhere. Even had a chat with a guy on an electric sccoter at the lights the other day. Told me his cost ?1800 but they are as cheap as ?350 on some sites. I can absolutely see the benefits of a foldable electric scooter for short distance commuting. They take up hardly any room and have disk braking. Why can't there be a place for them with some guidelines? This guy was wearing a helmet and had lights fitted on his. As with everything, it is down to the user to be safe and responsible around other road users.

[fishbiscuits]

Springer Wrote:

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> Woman killed in battersea today on a electric scooter

Sad as it is, it does not indicate that they're any more dangerous than a bicycle, for instance.

We def need some regulation on these things. Perhaps under certain speed/power they could be treated as bikes and permitted without license. I've just seen one available which can go 40mph... gears, lights, suspension.. how is that not a full motor vehicle?!! (I would love one, though...)

[Seabag]

Springer Wrote:

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> Woman killed in battersea today on a electric

> scooter

I?m sad to hear that, but there?s an inherent risk in most things, and stepping onto a scooter is one.

People also choke on baked beans, or fall off ladders. I even heard of a poor lady that collapsed and the metal straw she was drinking through ?did? for her in some nasty way. It?s how life rolls sometimes.

I think a few basics in precaution, and wearing some kind of high viz + helmets etc is a way forward.

As I said, Europe?s capitals are rife with them. Maybe our resident Brexshitters have an opinion on that, but me I?m all for it.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I?m all in favour of electric vehicles if they get more people out of their cars (which they probably do). Just a shame that SE London doesn?t see to have the same kind of coverage as other areas of London again. The new Uber ?Jump!? Bikes are the best, but they don?t even come as far south as the north bank of the Thames.

[Earl Aelfheah]

... that said, I saw someone on a Boosted board (e-skateboard) this morning and whilst it looked incredibly fun, he was far from in control/ stable. Those things are a lot faster than most e-scooters too.

[teddyboy23]

Young lad 14yrs old suffered a serious head injury on Saturday afternoon ,in beckenham after crashing into a busstop while riding on the pavement.he was airlifted to hospital .he's still in a crital condition.witnesses said no helmet on and was travelling at speed,and seemed to have lost control.hope he pulls through.

[Jennys]

There was a long article about e-scooters in The Observer yesterday.

[malumbu]

I think the purpose of social media is to discuss issues and enlighten ourselves. So if you refer to an article you may wish to explain what it is about, give an opinion and perhaps share the link. Otherwise it is like saying "there was a dog turd on the pavement" - which the questions are - where did it come from, what did it look like, why is it there, who is going to clean it up. My apologies as I just found it very hard to not make these comments rather than look it up.

So back to the discussion. Well not really further digressions. 1. Don't you just hate it when people go off topic. 2. Don't you just hate it when people have to have a go at cyclists even though this thread is not about push bikes 3. Interestingly I have seen two push bikes with petrol engines in the last week. (here's a kit you can buy in Amazon although I can't recommend it) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stroke-Motorized-Petrol-Bicycle-Engine/dp/B071DQXPNT

Back on thread - issues I have with electric scooters are that they suddenly come out of nowhere, cut me up and I doubt if the users have any training. But there again am I being selective in my views, and the same (ignorant) arguments are made about cyclists.

Anyway perhaps you forgot to finish off your post Jenny. I look forward to hearing more! (that sentence was not supposed to be sarcastic, clearly my earlier words were very pompous)

[fishbiscuits]

Who's having a go at cyclists?? It's a great way of getting about town, especially with the growing cycle infrastructure. Yeah there are some bad cyclists... some bad scooter riders... some bad car drivers... some bad bus drivers... even bad pedestrians! But that's not going to change, is it? Everyone just needs to be careful.

Petrol engines, you say? Sounds like the future!

[Siduhe]

Pedal-assisted pushbikes. Had a go on one a couple of years ago. Great fun, like having somebody push you. I see these as being great for those with less mobility, or a particularly long commute. But seeing fitter younger people than me doing similar journeys is odd.

I've tried a few times over the years to cycle more locally and do more shopping by bike and public transport in the local areas. Buying a pedal-assisted electric bike has been the thing that's swung it for me. I'm not that young and not that fit but it does three main things:

* makes it realistic for me to get up Underhill/Dog Kennel with a full pannier;

* means I arrive at my destination not a sweaty mess (and no lycra required); and

* means I can get away from the front of traffic lights at a speed so that I'm not holding up cars/having cars drive round me or being pushed past by other cyclists.

As a result I'm a far more confident and regular cyclist. Appreciate that some cyclists see them as "cheating" and there's obviously a cost involved, but I would definitely recommend getting an electric bike for people who just want to increase the amount of local cycling and commuting they do, regardless of age. E-bikes are much more commonly used on the continent by normal people - not just the elderly or those with restricted mobility.

[Jennys]

Jennys Wrote:

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> There was a long article about e-scooters in The

> Observer yesterday.

Sorry, but I don?t know how to link things on here. I assume you could look it up pretty easily if you wanted to. I hope and assume you are not really as offensive as your post suggests you might be.

[exdulwicher]

Link to a Guardian article:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jul/15/invasion-electric-scooter-backlash

and I guess this is The Observer one you refer to? From June though, not "yesterday" which in the course of this thread I assume to be Sunday 14th July...

https://observer.com/2019/06/electric-scooter-injuries-study/

Personally I'd say the more small mobility devices there are over and above massive polluting mobility devices (cars...) the better. Our useless Governement is so paralysed over Brexit though that literally nothing esle is getting through Parliament.

I was in Italy last summer, we were having a couple of drinks in a small bar on the corners of one of those lovely little residential, cobbled streets just watching the world go by. It was full of e-things. e-bikes (students, people doing the shopping, couples heading out for a ride along the river), e-scooters (seemed to be mostly kids but there were a few families too). Lovely atmosphere, quiet, peaceful - plenty of people strolling along unbothered by the little e-things which generally were fairly sedately ridden. I think in the entire time we were there we saw maybe half a dozen cars. It was so nice.

It can work fine. The problem is that people see one death / injury and immediately start to invent laws banning them. Shame they don't do that with cars...

[Jennys]

Thank you for that. Actually it was in just this very last Sunday?s Observer though it comes up online as Guardian. I could see how to put it on Facebook or Twitter but not on here. I will have another try.

[Jennys]

This might work

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwj4p5TXibrjAhUSSxUIHWgWBQYQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcities%2F2019%2Fjul%2F15%2Finvasion-electric-scooter-backlash&usg=AOvVaw1i3Ln5G4kG_UxvpsuvYGCE

[TheArtfulDogger]

Exdulwicher

They haven't just invented laws against them, they were in existence already and they are now enforcing them after the two crashes.

It does beg a question of should their use be debated with representation from various lobbies to see if they are safe to use in this country, if so what restrictions to where they can be used (for example not on public highways, m25...) and if there is an appetite for them plus what needs to be done to provide charging inferstructure without adding more dirty power sources to the grid

I like some of them but again in the right place (not on pavements where pedestrians walk for example)

[malumbu]

greetings Jenny, you will see that I have a pop at most people who just give a link (in fact I thought I was being quite gentle - I'm far worse with those who put up links to tweets but don't have views).

Here's the artcle (just cut and past the whole thing with http in it as well) https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jul/15/invasion-electric-scooter-backlash

It seems to want to cover everything and does not live up to its title. There are interesting studies in Copenhagen, which has the benefits of less cars and more space for bikes, and in Germany where they seem to be used when you are drunk. There is also some discussion about hire schemes but concerns that they go the same way as our yellow bike scheme. Some of the debate on this site is more illuminating.

Greetings Sidhue - I certainly wasn't having a pop at you. I do think it will be a shame if some give up the conventional bike for the e-bike due to the health benefits. I could certainly have a push up the hill by an electric motor.

Greetings fishbiscuits - I overeacted to a post which I thought was having a go at cyclists, which you normally get on this sort of discussion. But I didn't read it properly and jumped to the wrong conclusion. And thanks for the amusing comment on petrol engines. Made me smile.

And greetings to the rest of the EDF.