Moving to North Cross Road

[AlexC]

...a complete cop-out of an answer. Your reservations about NCR market could be applied to just about any open air food market around the country.

[DulwichFox]

AlexC Wrote:

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> ...a complete cop-out of an answer. Your

> reservations about NCR market could be applied to

> just about any open air food market around the

> country.

Yes they could. But was my initial post was to agree with Razors.

I am concerned about my own Local area. weather that be about Schools, Libraries, Shops, Transport, Markets.

I cannot be expected to show concern for every area in the country.

This is East Dulwich Forum..

Fox

[StraferJack]

Or you could take the point that markets like this exist everywhere in the country, in fact in most countries, and it?s not a problem, foxy

Do the denizens of ED really buy the cheese on a Saturday, fall ill on a Sunday and come back for more the next week?

No ? because it?s fine. There is nothing to worry about

[showboat]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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>

> Unrefridgerated Cheese and deli food festering

> for hours on a hot summers day.

Current legislation (if I remember correctly) allows for food to be unrefridgerated for up to 4 hours, after which it must be discarded. I agree that if they're in breach they should be prosecuted. If you gave evidence to that effect then you must contact the authorities.

> Homemade Cakes Fudge and the like with no

> evidence they were made in hygenic surroundings.

Evidence should be on file with the local EHO's. Again , legal requirement. They should be able to out your mind at ease.

>

> All the Indian restuarants constantly subjected

> to the scrutiny of Hygiene inspectors with their

> little probes fining owners to ?1,000's if there

> food is 1/2 Deg C above limit.

No one gets fined like that unless there are repeated violations. Here you demonstrate that you know nothing of practical EHO work.

>

> Not so for the posh little stall holders from

> D.V.

Again, have any if you actually asked Southwark about this? Or is it all supposition?

>

> Hog Roast swarming with flies.

I repeat, if you have evidence report it. Otherwise that was slander.

>

> Baguettes with the salad at air temp. Warm rice

> and salad Biggest cause of food poisoning.

Rice is dangerous. Salad itself is not. Incorrect washing of it and cross contamination are what INTRODUCE bacteria to the salad. Again, do you have evidence of bad food handling or incorrect temperature control?

>

> And it gets the blessing of Southwark Council.

> Well it would. They collect the rent..

Again, this is legally dodgy. Are you accusing the council of knowingly ignoring good safety standards in order to collect rent?

>

> The smell is enough to stop me going anywhere

> near it.

Each to their own.

>

[DulwichFox]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Or you could take the point that markets like this

> exist everywhere in the country, in fact in most

> countries, and it?s not a problem, foxy

>

> Do the denizens of ED really buy the cheese on a

> Saturday, fall ill on a Sunday and come back for

> more the next week?

>

> No ? because it?s fine. There is nothing to worry

> about

I do not actually need to worry about it as I would never dream about eating anything sold on NC Road.

(or any other street market)

At least Westminster Concil did the right thing and banned all the Hot-Dog stands in the West-End.

and to say that is different?? Well they have Hot-dog stands in New York.

Would not eat those either...

If you want to eat them go ahead. But would you feed them to your kids. ??

Fox.

[AlexC]

Well, you would be a barrel of laughs doing some travelling when it comes to eating. You're missing out on a whole world of street food, which is some of the tastiest food you can get!

[DulwichFox]

Trying to update but keeps failing... so this is a test update.

Fox.

[Alex K]

The boroughs as the laboratory of the city... Westminster bans hot-dog stands, Southwark permits them (under whatever conditions), perhaps Tower Hamlets ditto with a different set of conditions? And persons concerned with public health compare the general welfare of hot-dog eaters among the three venues and suggest a MINIMUM set of conditions. Let time collect evidence that will tell if Fox or his antagonists are correct.

[DulwichFox]

Don't really want to be proved right on this one..

I want something done Before some small child becomes ill from eating on North Cross Road.

Adults can make their own minds up.

Fox.

[StraferJack]

won't someone think of the children!!!

[showboat]

I repeat - again, because you ignored it the first time - if you have evidence that traders, food handlers or anyone else being negligent then you MUST report it. If you have evidence that Southwark Council are giving them an easy ride in exchange for rents then you must contact the police.

Anything else is unsupported, baseless and malicious accusations made because you don't have the full facts.

And at the risk of sounding like John Selwyn Gummer, my two year old has eaten little bits of food from three different stands up there, and is in excellent health. Do you want to report me to Social Services? Because if what you allege is true I'm being negligent. Tell me, how do you know I've put her at risk?

[Pickle]

I've seen environmental health officers at the food stalls before using temperature probes, so think they are regulated in the same way asnother food establishments.

I didn't realise I was living on the edge to such a dramatic extent - have been eating food from the market pretty much every weekend for the 8 years I've lived in the area. And still here to tell the tale :)

[DulwichFox]

showboat Wrote:

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> I repeat - again, because you ignored it the first

> time - if you have evidence that traders, food

> handlers or anyone else being negligent then you

> MUST report it. If you have evidence that

> Southwark Council are giving them an easy ride in

> exchange for rents then you must contact the

> police.

>

> Anything else is unsupported, baseless and

> malicious accusations made because you don't have

> the full facts.

>

> And at the risk of sounding like John Selwyn

> Gummer, my two year old has eaten little bits of

> food from three different stands up there, and is

> in excellent health. Do you want to report me to

> Social Services? Because if what you allege is

> true I'm being negligent. Tell me, how do you know

> I've put her at risk?

I have never suggested that any trader is neglegent.

It is also Not my responsiblity to report any missgivings..

That is the job of the Local Authorities.

I mearly expressed my concerns about the way some food stuffs were displayed.

I do not think that I will influence anyone here nor do I want to.

It was meant as casual observation.. an opinion.

You seem to be getting a bit Hysterical over the issue.

Saying

I MUST report it.

I should contact the police.

Suggesting

I should report you to social services

Thats crazy..

I just avoid the place.

Fox

[StraferJack]

Come come dulwich fox

You either "just avoid the place"

Or

You want something done before "a small child becomes ill"

But you can't be both.

[????]

I presume DF has never been to India/Thaialnd/Vietnam......er....even France to be honest

[showboat]

Ok Fox - to paraphase the great Bunk Moreland, "you're arguments f*&?ed and here's why"...

'I have never suggested that any trader is neglegent.'

Actually, you said the Hog Roast was 'swarming with flies' and that there was 'no evidence' that cakes were made in hygenic surroundings. You described 'Unrefridgerated Cheese and deli food festering for hours on a hot summers day' and 'Baguettes with the salad at air temp'. That's all bad, but the Hog Roast comment in particular is an accusation of negligence, as is questioning how the cakes are made, because you KNOW that's what you were trying to insinuate, and no amount of back peddling on your part can change that.

'It is also Not my responsiblity to report any missgivings.'

Food poisoning and illness is extremely serious - it kills. It is a crime. The penalty starts at a ?20,000 fine per person per incident and goes all theway up to jail time. If you know or suspect it is taking place then why wouldn't you report it? I would. You don't get to throw around dire warnings of what nmay happen to kiddies while at the same time saying you won't help. As I keep saying, if you have EVIDENCE, tell someone. The Local Authorities will act. Tell me, why wouldn't you report a crime?

'I mearly expressed my concerns about the way some food stuffs were displayed.'

No you didn't. You have come very close to slander in accusing traders of criminal behaviour and the council of looking the other way. Your comments are serious and should be taken seriously. Eg, 'it gets the blessing of Southwark Council.

Well it would. They collect the rent..'. Your saying the council is in collusion with criminal action. Back it up or recant it.

'I do not think that I will influence anyone here nor do I want to.

It was meant as casual observation.. an opinion.'

Of course you want to influence people. You want them closed down or moved on, and for folk not to use them. You're messing with peoples earnings on the basis of your own narrow minded and ignorant opinions, and not listening when others point out facts. That isn't casual or just an opinion. It's (as I keep reminding you) an accusation of lawbreaking.

I'm not getting hysterical - but this is my industry, and I don't like it when small minded folk who know nothing about the stringent laws we (quite rightly) operate under spout off thinking they have understanding of microbiology and cross contamination. For the record, the kitchen I run has the highest possible rating for cleanliness and safety that EHO's can give, and I'm CIEH Food Safety Level 3 (Merit) qualified. So I do know what I'm talking about.

As both StraferJack and Quids and others point out, there are major holes in your argument, given that there isn't a worldwide pandemic of people getting sick after eating from market stalls. I might gently suggest you widen your horizons a little.

[TillieTrotter]

Woohoo Showboat. You tell him boy/girl.

[MissDumpling]

Thank you, Showboat. Brilliantly put...

[katie1997]

???? Wrote:

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> I presume DF has never been to

> India/Thaialnd/Vietnam......er....even France to

> be honest

...or for some people on this thread, ventured past their own front door.

What showboat said (tu)

[DulwichFox]

katie1997 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I presume DF has never been to

> > India/Thaialnd/Vietnam......er....even France

> to

> > be honest

>

> ...or for some people on this thread, ventured

> past their own front door.

>

> What showboat said (tu)

I have actually been to :-

France 3-4 times

Belgium 3-4 times

Netherlands 4- 5 times

West Germany a few times

Germany Berlin 3 times when there used to be a wall travelled by train and hitch hiked

Italy 2 times

Spain 2 times

Portugal 1 time

Grecce 6-8 Times Before it was a major Tourist dest. 30 years ago.

Turkey 5-6 times Before it was a major Tourist dest. 20 years ago.

Did three year course Turkish language.and Culture.

Marmaris / Fetiye / Altinkum / Alanya / Kusadasi / Effes /

Sorry to disappoint katie

[showboat]

Notwithstanding that you're well travelled - at least inside what seems to be mostly western Europe - you've still failed to understand the points people have made. Did you eat at street markets in any of those places?

[DulwichFox]

showboat Wrote:

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> Notwithstanding that you're well travelled - at

> least inside what seems to be mostly western

> Europe - you've still failed to understand the

> points people have made. Did you eat at street

> markets in any of those places?

Yes All of them. all of the time. and not too many problems.

Fox.

[MissDumpling]

Sorry to disappoint Razors and DulwichFox, but as one of said food traders, I cam assure you that we are all inspected regularly by Southwark Food Team. In our case, we are also inspected by Tower Hamlets, Westminster, Camden and Lambeth, as we trade elsewhere in the capital. We are also inspected at home by Southwark. And by law, we have to keep HACCP records which relate to storage, preparation, cooking, re-heating and holding temperatures. In some respects then, we are more closely monitored than cafes and restaurants.

It really isn't in any of our interests to sell food that could make our customers ill. Not good for business.

Of course you don't have to eat any of our food if you don't want to. But please check with the traders in question before making unfounded allegations. This is how we make a living, so we take it extremely seriously.

[showboat]

Ah, HAACP - how much do you hate doing that stuff? Mind numbingly dull doesn't even begin to describe it...

Useful though, keeps the EHO's well happy when it's done right!

Fox - I really don't understand why you'll eat street food in other places but think ED is bad. Doesn't make any sense. If you don't like it, fair enough. But other than that your arguments don't hold water.

[DulwichFox]

showboat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Fox - I really don't understand why you'll eat

> street food in other places but think ED is bad.

> Doesn't make any sense. If you don't like it, fair

> enough. But other than that your arguments don't

> hold water.

There were 100's of street stalls on my travels. So I had a choice which ones I ate from.

Does not mean I did not get it wrong some times. and suffered for it.

It is being experienced that makes one cautious...

Now after many years of eating Burgers,kebabs, cakes , fries, hot dogs, and other general street food.

I have developed Type 2 diabetes. so all of those foods are off limit..

Keep eating that stuff and you could be joining me.

But there lies another story.

Fox