Anyone else's baby NOT sleeping through the night yet?

[sophiechristophy]

I think this is a really interesting article:

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsleepthrough.html

[jennyh]

I tried controlled crying when mine was little and as a result she slept really well and self-settled when she did wake. That lasted a few months, however like all babies and like everyone has said, there are lots of reasons why she now doesn't sleep and needs more help with it. I think even if you try all the ways to get them to sleep better you will still come up against periods when they don't. Mine is 14 months and 3 nights of the week she sleeps alright, 3 nights she wakes a few times and needs some settling, then we have 1 dreadful night and she can be up for a couple of hours. She is never fed in the night and hasn't been for at least 8 months. She wakes because she needs a cuddle or she has teething pain or she gets trapped the wrong way in the cot, or sheis thirsty, or she is standing up in the cot and won't lie down (as per little saff) or she has a horrid cough and cold. When she started nursery she had bad sleep and her clinginess is definitely a factor.

What i realised is that even the babies who are taught to self settle still need help at random times so the sooner I realised that you have good days and bad days, the sooner I felt less dread about the night. I am grateful for good nights and I feel rubbish the day after a bad night, but I go to bed early to make up for it! I totally understand that it can be really depressing and gloomy when you are sleep deprived, but like everyone else says...it will change eventually and in the meantime your body clock will adjust, it took mine months to get used to less sleep/broken sleep. Is really hard! Sure you're doing a brilliant job.

[Saffron]

Off on a tangent, but interesting food for thought. Left to my own patterns, I know I wouldn't have monophasic sleep!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep

[gillandjoe]

I go to bed so early these days!! 8 o'clock is when I start thinking about sneaking off!

I read this book called 'What Mothers Do - when it seems they are doing nothing' (my partner thought this title was hilarious) and it said that the most important part of becoming a mum is learning to let go of your old life and accept that a new life has begun for you. I think that this is easier in some areas than others and it is hard for me to accept feeling unhealthy and tired every day as a norm. I guess I will adjust, but I am having some teething problems (so is Joe, ha ha!)

[Saffron]

It helps if you can nuture your sense of humour... http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,701679,729975#msg-729975

[sunbob]

Thanks for the reminder about that funny thread. Our 5 month old started going in his own cot last Monday, after cosleeping since 10 wks. Other half is on leave for 2 wks so we are sharing duties. We are taking it as it comes and I think he's getting the idea of the. Cot as his bed, although he doesn't particularly like it. Anyway, I'm at that almost no sleep for the last week stage, bone tired, tearful and occasionally manic. One such very hysterically funny occasion was this lunch time. Having forgotten the nappy bag, left very late for our b holiday activity (as I didn't have the usual energy to chivvy everyone out) and with much loving help to prepare from my dear mum, (who is so willing but has physical restrictions of her own) we ended up eating a picnic in the car in Asda car park. In back Mum, and me hardly holding it together with maniacal laughter as 3 yr old enjoys smearing yogjurt around and (of course) daddy and grandpa blissfully unaware as they read their newspapers in the front.

Anyway, I am missing out on valuable sleep here. i wish you all some sleep tonight

[Fi from West Dulwich]

IT GETS BETTER, I PROMISE! Not necessarily their sleeping, my three year old hasn't slept through a whole night once in his entire life, but we just don't worry about it and as we always co-slept he just pops in with us and off he goes again to the land of nod. Ignore the smug sleeper mothers, their children probably do vile things when they are awake, or they're simply lying.

[Pickle]

Fi from West Dulwich

> Ignore the smug sleeper mothers,

> their children probably do vile things when they

> are awake, or they're simply lying.

I'm sorry, but this is bordering on ridiculous. At no point have the "smug sleeper mothers" criticised those of you posting on this thread so why the attitude? Are those of us with children who sleep somehow at fault?

My children sleep, they don't do vile things and I'm not lying. Not all children sleep well, I know that, but I take offence to the tone this thread is taking.

[Saffron]

I agree Fi's comment was, shall we say, badly worded, but let's not tar the whole thread and all it's posters with the same brush :( .

Up to now, this was a lovely, interesting, diverse, and supportive thread! :) I hope one errant comment does't spoil the whole discussion.

[Saffron]

sunbob Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for the reminder about that funny thread.

> Our 5 month old started going in his own cot last

> Monday, after cosleeping since 10 wks. Other half

> is on leave for 2 wks so we are sharing duties. We

> are taking it as it comes and I think he's getting

> the idea of the. Cot as his bed, although he

> doesn't particularly like it. Anyway, I'm at that

> almost no sleep for the last week stage, bone

> tired, tearful and occasionally manic. One such

> very hysterically funny occasion was this lunch

> time. Having forgotten the nappy bag, left very

> late for our b holiday activity (as I didn't have

> the usual energy to chivvy everyone out) and with

> much loving help to prepare from my dear mum, (who

> is so willing but has physical restrictions of her

> own) we ended up eating a picnic in the car in

> Asda car park. In back Mum, and me hardly holding

> it together with maniacal laughter as 3 yr old

> enjoys smearing yogjurt around and (of course)

> daddy and grandpa blissfully unaware as they read

> their newspapers in the front.

> Anyway, I am missing out on valuable sleep here. i

> wish you all some sleep tonight

That's a great story about the carpark picnic. Humour really does help disolve the despair of sleepless nights. xx

[hellosailor]

Fi from West Dulwich Wrote:

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> Ignore the smug sleeper mothers,

> their children probably do vile things when they

> are awake, or they're simply lying.

hmmm.. agree Pickle..always peculiar when someone tries to turn a helpful and supportive thread into something totally different that pits mums against other mums.

my 14 month old has been a good sleeper so far but I am well aware that these things can change overnight for any number of reasons, and that even if she stays a good sleeper, a future baby may wake up every hour, on the hour, until he/she is 15, so smugness doesn't factor. Plus, my daughter has had a shedload of feeding dramas, while many of my friends with difficult sleepers have sprogs who wolf down everything they're offered with gusto, but this difference doesn't make me feel they're being smug, even when I look a bit longingly at their little one scarfing a lasagne! Babies are all different, and the chances of having one who is at once a great sleeper / eater / socialiser are quite slim it seems!

Hope everyone gets some sleep tonight..

[Belle]

well said hellosailor. And just to be clear I was v much joking with my suggestion that mums of good sleepers should lie! I didn't have any of the nice EDF mums in mind when I said that...more thinking of the types you get on e.g. Babycentre, posting about sleep 'problems' and then it turns out their baby is suddenly 'only' sleeping 11 hours a night having previously slept 13...gah!

As you say Hellosailor, it is never static. My eldest slept well from 3-9 months, then terribly from 9-16 months, and has had his moments off and on since then. And lordy, he has always been challenging in his waking hours, so yes I think it all balances out. Agree with Saffron this has been a nice & diverse thread. GillandJoe I hope you get some sleep...

[mima08]

I think the most helpful thing I read about dealing with the tough times was in "buddhism for mothers" - that everything is transient, i.e. it will change (of course, lots of people had told me this but reading it in the book I finally got it... kinda).

hellosailor Wrote:

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> Hope everyone gets some sleep tonight..

Hear, hear - wishing all of us best of luck :)

[Fi from West Dulwich]

I did wonder afterwards whether my flippant, typed in haste post would be misconstrued - I didn't mean the mothers of those who sleep are all inherently smug, I meant that SOME mothers I have encountered were, I hate to say it, rather smug about it but that the reality was often rather different - case in point, the friend who replied to my email about how exhausting it was with a newborn to say that she was getting more sleep than before her baby's birth. This left me feeling dreadful, completely alone and unsupported and yet a conversation two years later revealed the truth, that she had regularly sobbed on her husband's shoulder when he returned from work saying that it was all overwhelming and that she was on her knees. Those sorts of competitive mothers do little for maternal solidarity in my view but of course I don't think that those with babies who sleep are all smug, I just think they are lucky and good luck to them. And as for their children doing vile things, I simply meant to show, again probably rather too flippantly, that all children do wonderful and tiresome things at different stages, if a baby is a great sleeper they might give their parent's a rough ride when they are two or a teenager, and the baby who never sleeps might be the sunniest soul in the world when awake; motherhood is swings and roundabouts in my experience. I would hate for this post, meant to raise a smile from a sleep-deprived mother, to turn into an EDF battle and it was absolutely not my intention to cause any offence. I'm off to have my cold scrambled eggs and to stop ignoring my three year old whilst I type.

Pickle Wrote:

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> Fi from West Dulwich

>

> > Ignore the smug sleeper mothers,

> > their children probably do vile things when

> they

> > are awake, or they're simply lying.

>

> I'm sorry, but this is bordering on ridiculous.

> At no point have the "smug sleeper mothers"

> criticised those of you posting on this thread so

> why the attitude? Are those of us with children

> who sleep somehow at fault?

>

> My children sleep, they don't do vile things and

> I'm not lying. Not all children sleep well, I

> know that, but I take offence to the tone this

> thread is taking.

[bluesuperted]

I took Fi's comment as a humorous message of support to parents of non-sleepers, and also not in any way attacking people on this thread or forum - as Belle said there are mums on babycentre, mumsnet and in real life who don't think before they speak about their marvellous sleepers, eaters, walkers, cuddlers, readers without a moment's thought for those whose children don't do things quite as easily or as well. Think another case of written word being interpreted differently and causing offence where none was intended.

On my birth board on babycentre there was an interesting post where a mum was boasting about her child's precociously good speech (and really boasting, no misinterpreted language here). A very dignified mum wrote back that it was hard to read as she had a very disabled son of the same age and it made her feel awful. Sleep is not on the same scale by any means as this but it demonstrates how one person's excitement and pleasure (often totally understandable and merited) can really grate on another.

No one on this thread reads as smug about sleep, but can any of you say you've never met a smug mum or dad even if unintentional? I'm sure I've even been guilty of it myself - as the mum of an early walker but a not so early talker I can now imagine that my excitement about my little one's mobility may have been irritating to others who were waiting for (literally) the next step in their child's development.

Back to sleep, think understanding the transience is key and like Mima08 I love the Buddhism for Mothers book, it really gives you perspective and is a calming and lovely read.

[Saffron]

Fi from West Dulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did wonder afterwards whether my flippant, typed

> in haste post would be misconstrued - I didn't

> mean the mothers of those who sleep are all

> inherently smug.

I was rather hoping that was the case. Sometimes dark humour gets a little lost in translation. Obviously not all parents of those who sleep well are inherently smug about it. xx

[KateW]

Fi from West Dulwich Wrote:

>Those sorts of competitive mothers do little for maternal solidarity in my view but of course I don't think that >those with babies who sleep are all smug, I just think they are lucky and good luck to them.

Sorry, but I worked damn hard to help my daughter to be a good sleeper! I sometimes get a bit miffed that some people think you must be lucky if you have a good sleeper; not luck on our part, just a lot of consistency and hard work! And no, I'm not smug, just happy that my little girl is well rested.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The important point to keep hold of is that you are not alone. Some parents are lucky enough to have children who sleep easilly and often, but just as many do not. Things will get better however. Hang in there.

[gillandjoe]

Thanks everyone - I do actually feel better about it knowing that so many of you are experiencing similar things and I think that Fi's comment was obviously a light-hearted joke and not meant to offend! Thanks also, Saffron, for that thread about our senses of humour! Thought I was the only one that had lost it post-natally! Although, i do still laugh often but it is usually about poo/pee/fart noises/raspberries!

Sorry, but I worked damn hard to help my daughter to be a good sleeper! I sometimes get a bit miffed that some people think you must be lucky if you have a good sleeper; not luck on our part, just a lot of consistency and hard work! And no, I'm not smug, just happy that my little girl is well rested.

I think all mums are working hard - its hard work being a mum! Not all babies or parents respond well to training...

[gillandjoe]

Also, I will definitely give the Buddhism for Mothers book a go - sounds great. Just as long as it doesn't make me feel I should be meditating every day (inevitably i won't and will just add it to my list of things to feel guilty about not doing - the same list with baby yoga and dieting on!)

[anna_r]

I have a three year old and a 19 month old and we probably get 1 night a week when they both sleep through. At the moment it is the older one usually waking. She normally can be settled very quickly but being woken for some random reason has become a normal expected part of our life and is completely manageable. It is very different from the extreme wakings and periods of being awake for hours that we used to get when they were younger. We always feel amazing when we get one of the dream nights though! Good luck x

[etta166]

13 months in, and baby #2 hardly ever sleeps through the night. Total contrast to baby #1, who was 11 weeks (yes, weeks - not months!!!) when he started sleeping through all night. I breastfed/feed both on demand, so I couldn't tell you why they are so different.

The most important thing is for you to enjoy the time you have with your children. Don't try to conform to societal norms if it doesn't fit in with how you want to rear your children.

Anyway, there are more gentle sleep training methods than cry-it-out. Try the no-cry sleep solution or the baby whisperer.

[MichelleT]

Its also worth remembering that the definition of sleeping through is sleeping for five hours and not from 7-7 or whatever the baby trainers have decided that week. BabyT's sleep is all over the place, sometimes brilliant, sometimes awful. He defined the 18 month sleep regression and would stand in his cot shouting 'no no no no' for an hour at a time before starting to cry. We decided to bring his cot into our room and side-car it (our bed is too small for three of us), and now one or both of us lies down with him until he falls asleep. At the moment this is working well, but who knows when it might change again :)

I second the recommendation of etta above, especially the No Cry Sleep Solution.