East Dulwich North? Character Area for the PNAAP

[Eileen]

I previously posted this under the heading 'Peckham South' but then seemed to get blocked from editing it because it was about 'Peckham South'. So I posted again to ask if the area the Council has proposed naming 'Peckham South', could equally, or should be called East Dulwich North? The point is that it straddles the area as we know from many previous discussions on the border of East Dulwich, many people refer to the southern part of it as East Dulwich, and many people who live in it already do often discuss our neighbourhood in this EDForum. That is why I think it is appropriate that we are able to have the discussion here. I hope others think that is helpful.

Previous information:

The Council are now consulting on the ?Preferred Options? PNAAP (Peckham & Nunhead Area Action Plan). I am starting this thread about one particular part of what they call Character Areas. This is a new section they have included in the PNAAP to subdivide the SE15 area into five, more local, sub-areas. You can find the whole text for this on pages 84 - 114 in the PNAAP. The five areas are shown in this pdf map extracted from the PNAAP.

The Council propose to call one of these Areas Peckham South. This is the neighbourhood north of Lordship Lane, including Goose Green. The policy text for this is in pages 100 ? 106 in the PNAAP It covers the SE15 streets to the west of Rye Lane. This includes the Bellenden area, where there are many EDF people, and so seems useful to create a thread here to discuss the proposals and the issues. These issues include:

1. The proposed boundary of 'Peckham South'

2. Development of back land sites

3. Poor design of infill developments

4. Shopping frontages

5. Open Space

6. Traffic

7. Car parking

8. Public realm / built environment

If you live or work in or know the ?Peckham South? neighbourhood do please read the text pages 100-106 link above, and contribute to the discussion on those or any other issues.

You can find some comments and suggestions on some of the issues here.

The comments have to be with the Council by 24th April; email your comments with your name, street and postcode to [email protected] If you don?t want those personal details to appear publically say that clearly.

You should be able to see the paper copy of the PNAAP in the libraries, and you can get a copy by post by asking for one giving your name and address:

- email: [email protected]

- phone: 020 7525 5471

I?d like to end this introduction by asking who, reading this, has already seen the PNAAP and is aware of the consultation timetable ending 24 April 2012? I hope we can have a real discussion here about this proposed 'Peckham South' Character Area plan!

[edhistory]

> The EDF is saying it won't accept my previous post because it is not about East Dulwich.

Eileen:

The area sourh of Choumert Grove and west of Rye Lane is the historic East Dulwich parish.

Admin:

The Action Plan boundary takes in huge chunks of East Dulwich south of East Dulwich Road.

John K

[Administrator]

I ain't said nuffink about accepting your previous post, leave me out of it.

[nxjen]

I have looked at Figure 18: Peckham South Vision on page 101 of the Action Plan. East Dulwich Road forms the Southern boundary to the area so am unclear where "the huge chunks of East Dulwich south of East Dulwich Road" are. Also, for the sake of clarification, Goose Green is not included within the Action Plan.

[Eileen]

Administrator Wrote:

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> I ain't said nuffink about accepting your previous

> post, leave me out of it.

Dear Administrator ? After I posted first under the title *Peckham South - Character Area for the PNAAP* and then tried to edit it was impossible to get back into it. I then noticed this under the subject heading: **Messages in this section must be about issues specific to East Dulwich. The local business section is here** and I thought that was a message saying the post was being rejected. But now I have been able to get in and edit this post and restore the links so it looks OK again, and we can have the discussion. Thank you.

[Eileen]

nxjen Wrote:

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> I have looked at Figure 18: Peckham South Vision

> on page 101 of the Action Plan. East Dulwich Road

> forms the Southern boundary to the area so am

> unclear where "the huge chunks of East Dulwich

> south of East Dulwich Road" are. Also, for the

> sake of clarification, Goose Green is not included

> within the Action Plan.

I am not sure what John K has in mind on "the huge chunks of East Dulwich south of East Dulwich Road"; maybe he would like to expand? You can see from the map of the five Character Areas exactly what is covered by the PNAAP and the boundary of the proposed Peckham South.

One of the issues about the proposed boundary is that it cuts the Bellenden* part of the neighbourhood in two as it follows the ward boundary between The Lane ward and the South Camberwell ward. *This is 'Bellenden' as in the boundary of the Bellenden Renewal scheme 1997-2007 which formed the basis of a sort of emerging neighbourhood identity south of the railway line, but subsumed within the wider one of Rye Lane West including north of the railway line. These areas are easier to see in the map on the BRG website here.

Ward boundaries are administrative and often arbitrary for electoral purposes. This has its inconveniences but it is inevitable as population numbers shift around. But for producing a text which is about a planning Character Area I would suggest is not sensible, nor is it necessary as it just needs to be mentioned in the text that the ward boundaries are not congruent with the actual 'character area'. I cover these points in the issues note here.

It is in that context of the Character Area that Goose Green is included, as it is an essential part of the Character Area between East Dulwich Road and Peckham Road. We who live in that area, and have taken an active part in local planning matters for many years, have called the area 'Rye Lane West neighbourhood? based on what the Council was calling it in previous naming exercises. See the map and text under boundary and character of Rye Lane West neighbourhood on the Bellenden Residents? Group website here. Further background to that and more on the boundary matter you can see in this note here.

I hope others can give their views about the boundary issue in relation to what makes sense from a Planning perspective in producing a ?Character Area?. It doesn?t need to be contentious if we remember that it is about what makes sense in giving a description of the character of the area for planning purposes. I would suggest that excluding the streets in the South Camberwell ward territory in the SW corner of Bellenden is not sensible from a planning ?Character Area ?perspective.

[PeckhamRose]

A 'character area'. Nope, I'm lost.

[Eileen]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> A 'character area'. Nope, I'm lost.

Hi Peckham Rose ? have a look at this map of the five Character Areas

You can see from that exactly what area is covered in each of the five ?Character Areas?.

Next see if you live in one of those. If you do, then look up the proposed description of that area - covering your own neighbourhood - in the PNAAP between pages 84 ? 114 of the PNAAP. Page 84 gives a brief explanation of what a 'Character Area ' is for the PNAAP.

Then you can see what they mean by Character Area as it affects your own immediate surroundings. Does that help to explain what this is about, and how close to home it is?

[Eileen]

As you are reading this post, please look at this map and see if where you live or run a business or work is in one of the five ?Character Areas? marked out there.

If it is in the area marked Peckham South then please look at this note about the issues that need to be thought about by anyone living or working there. The draft plan for that area is on pages 100 ? 106 in the PNAAP. If you have any thoughts about the issues any of that raises I hope you will post something here so it can contribute to the discussion.

If you live in another area marked out on that map as a ?Character Area?, you will find the text for the draft plan for it in pages 84 ? 114 in the PNAAP. Then you can decide what issues, if any there that you would like to raise for discussion here or elsewhere.

[PeckhamRose]

Why are there two Peckham Easts? The north one should be called Peckham North East.

And if these little geographic areas are to be split in to such small areas, why are three distinct different areas all lumped into one characters area called Nunhead Peckham Rye and Honor Oak?

And what is the point of all this? I mean, why are we concerning ourselves with politicians' games of boundary definition? There are lots of different characters and areas within the one big so-called character area of Nunhead Peckham Rye and Honor Oak. For starters even Nunhead has different areas within it.

[Eileen]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> Why are there two Peckham Easts? The north one should be called Peckham North East.

> And if these little geographic areas are to be split in to such small areas, why are three distinct different areas

> all lumped into one characters area called Nunhead Peckham Rye and Honor Oak?

> And what is the point of all this? I mean, why are we concerning ourselves with politicians' games of

> boundary definition? There are lots of different characters and areas within the one big so-called

> character area of Nunhead Peckham Rye and Honor Oak. For starters even Nunhead has different areas within it.

These points about the boundaries and sizes of the Character Areas are useful and relevant points to make in your comments to the council.

But this exercise is not just about boundary definition - it is also and much more about the detailed content of proposed planning policies. Which of the five areas do you live in PeckhamRose? Have you read the policy pages for that area? Do you agree with them?

Is there anything you want changed? Is there anything missing that you want added? If your answer to those two questions is no then there is no action for you.

I hope that others who check into this topic discussion can focus on the content of the policy proposals for their own areas and see if there is anything they want to use this forum to discuss.

Focusing on boundary issues, to the exclusion of the policy content, is missing a good opportunity to discuss with other residents some key planning policy issues affecting our futures.

[neilson99]

More speed humps, road widening and road closures then? Oh, and we'll get some shiny new paving. How imaginative!

[PeckhamRose]

If every single person who offered opinions, all said we did not want more speed humps (and of course that won't happen because some people love them), would the council get rid of them? Course not. Done deal. Call me an old cynic (I'm trying to remain smiling from previous post in Positive News), but really, council have their agenda and probably a big hangar with the year's budget worth of road humps. If they don't use them all this year they won't get more for next year. Every year I ask for more bike parks in useful areas. Every year am ignored, and that's just ONE tiny tiny question in the big scheme of things. I did not 'vote' for the way the Consort Road one way system has been changed and for the way the changes have occurred on Peckham Rye East Side. I voted for other options. And if more people did than not, then fine, they got their way and that is good democracy at work. But we never get to hear the results of the votings. So we/I just assume the council does what it wants to anyway. And I am more intelligent than that but experience beats me down.

[DagmarJ]

Eileen - thank you for the post. I realise it's too late (haven't been on the forum for a while) for submissions, but still good to catch up with some of the Council plans. If this goes ahead, i'll be in Peckham South, and actually, i'd be very happy with that. I do live in Peckham, SE15 (just north of East Dulwich Rd) but to be able to describe it a bit more precisely would help (i tend to say 'South Peckham' or 'near Peckham Rye' in any case).

[Huggers]

Peckwich.

[geneie]

So Peckham (South) should be called East Dulwich (North)?! Oh dear, such snobbery... Not long ago, there were people living in East Dulwich (north) who claimed to live in Peckham...

[Pocket]

Agree with genie. There's a pungent whiff of snobbery going on here.

Reading between the lines, guessing the whole underlying reason certain people on here don't want to live in an area called 'Peckham South' is that 'East Dulwich' for them means a nice, warm, fuzzy halo effect on the price of their property and their middle class aspiration.

[henryb]

I think the point the OP was making was that the "Peckham South" Character Area contains streets which people consider East Dulwich so a thread about it should be allowed on the East Dulwich Forum rather than it should be renamed. Also the proposed South Peckham area splits the ?Bellenden Area? so it probably makes sense to shift the boarder to include the other streets in the ?Bellenden Area? as they are similar in character, have one residents association and therefore should considered in conjunction in terms of the council?s action plan policy.