Green and Blue closure?

[Ultraconsultancy]

I stand corrected - as usual - beagle. you work in the commercial property business? i'm a retailer, so my experience, as you will have noted , is broad but informal.

[legalbeagle]

Well if the problem was under G&B's property you would have been right on the button! I don't work in commercial property any more but I have had some experience of commercial leases and their various issues in the past.

[dulwichbloke]

LegalBeagle, I'm not sure that statements about who is legally responsible for remedying the situation are particularly helpful, or likely to be accurate without knowing all the facts. For example, much will depend on the terms of the lease and it is usually the tenant who is responsible for repairs (but that will depend on the terms of the contract - i.e. the lease). If the blockage is not in part of the demised premises, contrary to what you suggest, it does not follow that the 'landlord' would be liable. That presupposes that the 'landlord' is the same person who owns the land where the blockage is located. That may well not be the case and even if it were that is not necessarily conclusive. There may be some grounds for an action based on the tort of nuisance (for which interim, or other injunctive relief may be available) but the defendant in any such action may well not be G&B's 'landlord'. Without having all the facts available it is simply not possible (and even dangerous - because some may even rely on what you say) to say who is liable to remedy the problem.

I note that in an early posting, the owner of G&B was laying the blame firmly at the door of a neighbouring business, not the landlord. The only thing that appears to be certain, is that we don't know sufficient facts to form a reliable view on the rights and wrongs of the problem.

I hope it all gets sorted in favour of a common sense solution and to everyone's advantage (or at the very least to the advantage of the person who is, in fact, in the right and therefore the most deserving). However, as I have said before, I didn't think G&B's tactic of slagging off their neighbours in public was constructive, or necessarily fair or correct.

I'm not knocking your opinion, which you are obviously entitled to hold, but I am urging caution on anybody before jumping to conclusions on partial facts.

[dulwichbloke]

...although in many other contexts, (i.e weekly, when reading the NOTW) I do rather enjoy leaping to conclusions based on conjecture and hearsay/rumours!

[SeanMacGabhann]

I share the concern about G&B's tactic but the bottom line remains, it isn't THEIR fault

How could it be? There is a drainage issue, affecting the business they depend on adn wichever way they turn they are blocked.... How would any of us feel in that situation? What would you actually DO next?

[snorky]

The disinformation leaked out here is very very sad - I dont do G&B and dont really havge an opinion on them any different from (most ) of the other shops on the Lane, but Its slightly worrying that opinions seem to have been formed and sides taken without anything pertaining to actual facts being documented.

quoting the Goebbels like stream of bleating that comes across on the blog is hardly objective and I have heard zero from any other "side" in the matter.

lets be objective

[Michael Palaeologus]

Michael Palaeologus notes that Snorky is posting like a normal person.

[snorky]

New year resolution ?

nah.

[giggirl]

I miss G&B and I'm actively supporting them by regularly buying wine from the shop. This is completely at odds with my new year's resolution, which is to give up alcohol in January. I'm accumulating a large stock of G&B bottles in the meantime; roll on February.

[SeanMacGabhann]

hey giggirl - you've been quiet of late

snorky - I kind of support what you're saying in that it appears many of us have jumped "onside" fairly quickly

But leaving aside who is right and wrong, I'm genuinely curious as to know what other people would do if they had the same problem in the same location, and do you think it hasn't occured to G&B

[mikese22]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But leaving aside who is right and wrong, I'm

> genuinely curious as to know what other people

> would do if they had the same problem in the same

> location, and do you think it hasn't occured to

> G&B

Get an injunction from the court forcing the person responsible (for the drain not necessarily the blockage)to fix it - not cheap, but if you're pretty sure that the other side is liable then you'd almost certainly recover your costs; they can then sue whoever caused the blockage (or whatever) if it isn't them

Merely serving court papers might spur them (whoever they are) into action......

This happened to me at work a few years back when my employer allegedly failed to fix a leaky roof - I was the poor sod who had to go to court and was at one point (theoretically) facing prison for contempt of court - not much fun and I certainly kicked the maintenance manager's arse to get it sorted!

[Otto]

G&B has opened up an interesting independent business which I think is a very nice addition to Lordship Lane. I would be incredibly sad if they disappeared. Let's hope for the best for them.

Otto

[legalbeagle]

Dulwichbloke - of course you are right, much will depend on the terms of the lease. The point I'm trying to make is that it is really tough for leaseholders - whoever they are - when problems like this arise. They might be responsible for the drains that are part of the premises they lease, but what about if the problem arises elsewhere? Legally all a leaseholder is entitled to do is look to their landlord, and if he hasn't caused the problem, he is the one with the legal power to force whoever has caused the problem to fix it. So if your landlord doesn't act, you have to force him to, which is time consuming and expensive. I have no clue whether a neighbour, and near neighbour, or the landlord will end up paying so in that sense I am not taking sides against anyone, I am just taking sides with Green & Blue because I can't see how any of this is their fault. Surely if they could have fixed the problem they would have done, rather than shut their business.

[monica]

Green and blue bar side use to be a sandwich bar called regewells then it was a poor imitation of an italian resturant,whe the building went on the market we, my business partner and i had a look at the building with our builder and after we looked he gave us the post mortom and we ran fast,simply because it needed so much structural work and a lot of money behind it.

[SeanMacGabhann]

interesting, monica... oh dear it's not looking good

and Redgewells was great but you are so right about what followed. Same sisters as redgewells wasn't it? I get the impression they put everythng into the Italian relaunch - but it didn't work on any level. Well, the food might have been awesome but I was never going in to go in and try it as the decor was vile and I would have been the only one in there... I shudder at the memory

[monica]

No the owners of Redgewells were different to the resturant,kevin ho had redgewells was a great host and good with food the sisters were not

[monica]

No the owners of Redgewells were different to the resturant,kevin who had redgewells was a great host and good with food the sisters were not

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Sean said: "the decor was vile"

Am I the only one who doesn't like the acid green currently on offer?

[annaj]

I loved Redgewells and still miss it. I did eat in the Italian once, a very early date with MrJ, and we were the only people there. The food was fantastic though, I always thought it was a real shame they couldn't get everything else right.

But staying on topic, I've only been to Green & Blue twice and had completely different experiences. The first time the staff were patronising and behaved as if we were being utterly tiresome in asking them to explain a bit more about the wines. We felt extremely uncomfortable and left quickly. The second time was just before it closed, the waitress was charm itself and really helpful with recommendations.

I'd like it to stay open so I can try a few more times and make up my mind.

[dulwichbloke]

SMG - I wasn't sugesting it was their fault - I have no idea who is to blame, which was the gist of my posting. I can't say for sure what I would 'do' next. However, I would certainly (at the earliest opportunity) check my legal position by attending at a solicitors which undertakes property law cases and presenting all the relvant facts/documents to them. Then I would consider their advice and if no progress was being made by common sense attempts at negotiating with other relevant parties, (which is invariably the best way of sorting such problems out) I would commence legal proceedings (assuming I were in the right) with a view to remedying the situation as soon as possible. I would do this quickly if my business depended on it and I had been advised I had a good case. I would seek and injunction and/or damages depending upon the facts/merits.

I would also consider entering into formal mediation with the other parties through the court system, although that would require the consent of all parties to the proceedings. Such mediation can be effective and less costly than going to trial. G&B's blog suggested that no legal proceedings had been commenced.

I suspect that any solicitor worth their salt would probably advise against posting accusations/laying blame on other parties on a public internet blog. But then again, I could be wrong

[foxyarchie]

well I was in there for the first time with my mate just before xmas and it was amazing! We were chatting to the lovely waitress about the fact we were eating off of paper plates and plastic knives and forks, she said the water promlems were due to some politics the the shop next door, celestial celestial! Sounds like there being a bit of a nightmare.........

[Brixton]

Micheal thankyou for the ongoing ego boosts and don't panic I haven't gone any where.

The shop's temporary trading hours are 11am til 9pm

[Michael Palaeologus]

Hurrah!! Always happy to boost your ego - but I am of course simply telling the truth ;-), here's to many a bottle in the future.

[Otto]

there looks like some hope for G&B - some digging happening outside the shop next door today...

i miss G&B...hope it is soon resolved...