Exclusive breastfeeding for first 6 months unrealistic?

[hellosailor]

sophiechristophy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think

> your experience is testiment to the fact that

> there isn't enough quality and accessible support

> for breastfeeding mothers, perhaps if there had

> been your situation could have been made more

> managable somehow, for both you and your daughter,

> so that you didn't suffer in the way that you did.

I have to say that in my case I really don't feel that my particular experience is testament to a lack of support for breast feeding mothers. (that's not to say that others don't feel unsupported of course.)

I didn't feel unsupported. I attended breast feeding cafes - I live minutes from one - I rang the NCT breast feeding helpline, I spoke to HVs and several times saw the wonderful Clare Kedves, breast feeding specialist at Kings.

I was told that if I took drugs to improve my milk supply (I did this), pumped for hours a day (I did this - it took an hour to get every ounce),fed in a quiet dark room with no people or distractions ( I never went out), taped tiny tubes to my boobs so that my baby was inadvertently drinking expressed breast milk from a bottle hidden under my jumper while she simultaneously suckled from my breast in order to waylay concerns from the doctors that she had fallen from 91st to 25th percentile, applied plentiful lansinoh and stuck at it, that there was no reason for me to stop breast feeding.

I didn't want to sit in a quiet dark room all day, I didn't want to pump for several house a day to try to get together enough of a feed to put in the secret bottle which was attached to the tubes taped to my boobs, I wanted to stop breast feeding and go to the park with the other mums, to be given 'permission' to do this, to have someone put their arm round me and say 'enough', that is what i wanted to be supported in.

>

>

>Sophiechristophy wrote:

>

> I just wonder what factors

> have led to women feeling this way about

> breastfeeding, and how breastfeeding has become

> something that is seen by some as optional rather

> than essential as part of giving birth and having

a baby?

It is optional Sophie. You may find that hard to reconcile but it is.

If I'm lucky enough to have more children I also plan to breast feed them, but if the situation was the same as with my daughter, I may well exercise that option.

Out of interest, what more support do you feel someone in the sort of situation I describe could be given?

[JessicaR]

If you can do it then that's brilliant. There's no doubt at all that it's loads better for babies than formula. I was lucky in that it came quite easily to me & I really wanted to do it so I stuck at it when it was a bit sore- and OMG how much easier than all that bottle sterilising!! But if you can't, or really don't want to... don't feel guilty! We can't all be perfect parents all the time. Breast fed for a year ten years ago? Yes! But my kids just had an easter egg each half an hour before bed....

[sophiechristophy]

Hellosailor I think that you have misunderstood my position on this. I am not saying that in absolutely all circumstances and under all conditions, breastfeeding is the right option for a mother and baby. From your description, you went above and beyond in your endevours to breastfeed, and managed under very difficult circumstances to breastfeed for a considerable length of time. In your situation, utilising formula feeding was ultimately the best option for you and your baby.

[Monkey]

"Don't feel guilty. We can't all be perfect parents all the time."

Dear oh dear.

[jollybaby]

I do agree that it's a shame that women stop because they don't have the support or feel uncomfortable about feeding in public. I mixed fed Miss JB and I had the opposite problem in the early days - I felt embarrassed about formula feeding in public. I can remember breast feeding her whilst out at lunch and then running home to give her a bottle - oh the joys of maternal guilt.

As for what can be done to improve rates - a tough one. As others have said it's hard to strike the balance between promoting breast feeding without making those who can't feel like failures. I'm personally of the opinion that breast is best but formula is fine but I suppose if they put it like that lots of women aren't going to even bother - particularly if none of their friends or relatives breast fed.

[susyp]

hellosailor you put into words far more articulately than i the issues that can sometimes be caused by breastfeeding. There is no point doing it if it isolates you and brings you near to pnd - i was the same and actually had no problems at all for the first 4 months apart from how often my daughter needed to feed and how it made me feel that i therefore couldn't leave the house (as well as being wrecked, physically). My point is that it does not matter which you give your baby - as long as you are doing it for the best outcome. If you are stressed , exhausted, miserable, then perhaps, it would be better for your baby to give formula. I really think the mother and baby's happiness is paramount. And it is hard to see the wood for the trees when you have tunnel vision over breastfeeding. I know I did, it took a health visitor to talk me into stopping to make me see the light. I had plenty of encouragement and help, but like hellosailor, I didn't enjoy it, I enjoyed the actual feeding, but I didn't enjoy how much it took over my life and my time . Once i gave it up - we both had a ball! And I am watching my sister have such a better first few months without the pressures of breastfeeding. I equally have seen it work for dozens of my friends - and good on them.

However, were I to have another child, I would not breast feed. Just because I don't want to. And that does not make me a bad mother.

Susypx

[sophiechristophy]

Susyp - I noticed from your previous posts that your daughter has a milk allergy, and hellosailor, that your daughter had late diagnosed tough-tie. Just wanted to make the point that these are situations that would complicate brestfeeding beyond the norm.

[helena handbasket]

And these are situations that have happened to loads of us. In fact, I suspect a good number of people who move to formula for reasons such as these. They just don't bother defending their case at every turn, because really it's nobodies business and it takes a special kind of person to ask.

I had loads of support but I think it made it worse, (as hellosailor mentioned, sometimes you really feel like you need permission...... now THAT's messed up), because every time I begged for mercy they found some new trick for me to try. For something that comes so naturally to mothers in Rawanda, we sure do struggle in the first world. Personally I'm glad to have had a baby in a place that has clean enough water to make formula, and it doesn't cost a week's wages which I probably wouldn't have. I'd be curious to see statistics (please don't) on how many children "fail to thrive" when breast feeding doesn't work. What happens when their babies get tongue tie? Oh, right.

And this is why there are always going to be more formula fed babies than you think is appropriate.

I've said this before and still believe this is a mental health issue. Babies need mentally healthy moms.

[susyp]

true about the milk allergy but it would not have been diagnosed for even longer if i had carried on breast feeding - i just had a very unhappy, screaming baby, but no-one connected it to breast feeding. it only came to light when we tried her on formula. equally my breast cancer would not have been diagnosed had i carried on breast feeding. Of course these are special cases but ultimately the reason i would not do it again is basically for mental health - as helena handbasket says.

also when i gave up the health visitor told me it was really the first month that counted - after that it is a sliding scale, and at 6 months it has barely any benefits at all. I haven't checked the validity of that but i have repeated it to friends/family who have been physically unable to breast feed after a few weeks and yet feel terrible.

my sister could breast feed but her baby failed to put on weight for some reason (for several weeks) - and yet all her health visitors/midwives etc (who visited her daily) kept telling her to carry on. It was only family that persuaded her not to. Thus illustrating Helena handbasket's case that in some situations all the advice can make a situation worse.

I do think bf is a lovely thing and i did enjoy it initially, but i wouldn't say it helped me bond - that happened when my daughter smiled at me, or laughed, not when she was feeding. It does work for many and i wouldn't want to put anyone off trying, but just not to sweat it if it doesn't feel right.

Susypx

[Fuschia]

This prompts me to repost something posted today on Facebook by a blogger i follow

'When you advocate for breastfeeding, you are up against those advocating for formula--namely, the multi-billion dollar industry with a truly sketchy record when it comes to honesty and integrity (to say the least). With their millions of marketing dollars aimed directly at a society that is very receptive to marketing, especially when done under the guise of "science" it is difficult enough, but I'm pretty sure its this same machinery that is pitting women against women, breastfeeders against formulafeeders.

I have said it many, many times. As a breastfeeding advocate, I am not at war with moms who feed their babies formula, I'm at war with people who are against breastfeeding.

I have heard countless situations where, yeah, even to me, it makes sense that a mom has turned to formula in that specific circumstance. In looking at the overall picture, the circumstance was created by a society that emphasizes: independence from our children, priority on materialistic gain, striving for unattainable wealth, and the individual as a commodifiable work unit. These are obstacles no one person can possibly overcome. It takes a major cultural shift to overcome the barriers to breastfeeding. The EASY ones are misinformation and bad advice. But those are simply symptoms of a larger cultural problem which has made breastfeeding, the most simple and natural way to feed a baby, an real uphill battle.'

[Saila]

deary me...

that blogs makes out this that bottle feeding is somehow linked to 'today's' society - as we scramble after more and more money and get won over by formula feeding ads, secretly brainwashing us into forumla feeding.

I ,like probably many mums on this thread, hadn't even heard of forumla specific companies (apart from perhaps nestle?) when i turned to ff. How did i decide on what brand to give him? i gave the same brand that was given to him whilst he was in special care for 10 days. Not adverts.

for hundreds of years mums have turned to bottles to help them feed for all the reason above.

http://www.babybottle-museum.co.uk/articles.htm

the pressure on mums is imo INSANE. I heard a terribly sad story yesterday about a mum friend of my sister who was diagnosed with thyroid cancer whilst pregnant. She really bravely went through surgery to remove the tumour. However she turned down the cytoxic therapy after birth which she was told she must have by her doctor to ensure the best outcome for herself, so that she could exclusively bf her child for 6 months.... now look who's been brainwashed???? This woman has imo, by all of these sorts of forums and the often militant attitude you find everywhere these days.

so her decision was the risk not being there for her daughter so that she could bf for 6 months?

it's got so beyond a joke this...

[sophiechristophy]

To the majority breatfeeding is possible. It is proven to have great health benefits for mother's and babies. I don't understand why discussing the fact that despite this the majority of women in the UK choose not to do it, and to consider why this might be and what things might help mothers in breastfeeding, causes such an agressive response. At no point have individuals been critised for their own personal choices, or mothers labelled as good or bad according to their choices.

[susyp]

it is because most woman do want to breast feed, and try their very best to do so, but when it gets difficult, or is not suiting them for whatever reason, it is very very difficult emotionally and in terms of societal pressure to give up. And in the big scheme of parenting, whether or not you breast feed is really of the tiniest consequence. I really don't care whether anyone breast feeds or not but I object to the pressure that new mums are put under to make it work. Maybe most women don't do it for 6 months but most women (anectodally here) do do it for some of the time and therefore their babies do benefit. Be interested to know what the sliding scale is after that first month.

susypx

[Lindsey<3]

I have just started my little girl on solids, I exclusively breastfed her for 6 months. I didn't find it difficult at all and likewise I'll feed my baby in public reguardless of who disagrees and I have had some stick for doing so. But at the end of the day it is so easy for a shopping center for example to have feeding rooms to breastfeed and there just aren't enough facilities around. Also I had a lot of people iincluding family members and friends that breastmilk isn't enough alone for a 5-6 month old but it definately has been for my little girl she was 18lbs @ 6 months and that's before I started her on solids. I think I made the best decision for my baby.

Lindsey x

[Saila]

why do people get so upset sophiecristophy?

becuase comments written in the most recent posts are frankly very upseeting to new mums who are really struggling.

Criticising an already incredibly vulnerable section of the population, just seems cruel to me.

and then to suggest that the decision was somehow influenced by the marketing of f. companies...

So, it makes a new mum think that she's considered shallow, lazy and weak minded.

to all the new mums reading this keenly (as i would have been on maternity leave in those dark early days) PLEASE dont feel attacked and do what's best for you.

[Fuschia]

Sails, I don't think you have read the blog I posted at all in the way I intended

The blogger is at pains to say she has an issue with those opposed to breastfeeding ( which the formula companies clearly are) - and not at all with mothers who formula feed. I think that is the correct distinction to make.

I don't think anybody needs to be concerned with the choices of others.

But I think we can object to the intentional campaign of big business to set mother against mother ... Coining offensive phases such as 'breastapo' to attempt to isolate and attack those who often give their time for free to support bf mothers (bf counsellors, I mean)

When it is at the point where any mention of the facts regarding formula milk is deemed to be unfair because 'it makes mothers feel guilty' then I think the evidence is very clear for the success of the ff companies' strategy

[sophiechristophy]

Saila - who is criticising?? You said yourself in another post: "Support for bf is definitely worthy of discussion".

[Monkey]

I think it's because hardly a week passes by without a new dubious survey coming out extolling the virtue of breast feeding. I feel like screaming: "my boobs are my boobs. Leave them alone. They are not public property." also because of forum threads like a lot on this forum where people wank themselves about being super mothers cos they bf. If it's clever, reverse marketing from the formula companies, it's working for me.

Is the skill getting lost? Maybe, maybe not. It's never been so documented, trends so dissected, that's for sure. The support is there. From breast feeding classes to breast feeding counsellors and private lactation consultants for those who can afford it. No amount of help would have changed anything for me, not even a 24-hour team of mother's helps and midwives. I needed to rest without having a baby fighting off my boob and pumping in between feeds. I made a conscious decision to switch to ff. Like saila I would not have been able to name a single brand of formula before having my daughter.

[Saila]

I absolutely do think there should be more support for new mums when it comes to bf - 100% i agree with that. Especially from midwives.

I posted on this thread as i didn't like the tone it adopted today - and i wanted to step in and say something in defense of those mums who try really hard and are made to feel guilty by threads such as this

and it's not just me

here's a quote from a pm to me about this very thread (apologies to the woman who sent it, i hope you understand why i have qutoed you cos i think you speak for many)

"Threads like these used to make me feel so defensive. I'm better about it now but so aware there are other mums with younger babies who still feel sad about bf not working and this thread might make it worse!"

[sophiechristophy]

The intention of this thread was to discuss the issue of low breastfeeding rates in the UK and the potential causes of this, not to attack mothers or try to make any mothers feel guilty. Clearly, breastfeeding is a highly emotive issue, and those who have had difficult and upsetting experiences feel highly defensive, reactive and upset by this subject. Perhaps if you feel so sensitive and negative on the subject of breastfeeding then it would be better to avoid a thread with a subject line that is explicitly discussing this topic? In no way did I set out to offend anyone.

The fact remains that we have poor breastfeeding rates at 6 months in this country, far worse than other european countries, and I think this is something that is interesting to look at and see if there are clear reasons why and if there are ways to improve the breastfeeding rates here. An NCT survey found this:

"Every year more than 200,000 mothers stop breastfeeding in the first few days and weeks ? 90% of these mothers would have liked to continue. In Norway, Canada and Sweden more than 90% of mothers start to breastfeed and most continue without problems."

How is considering this attacking mothers or aiming to make them feel guilty??? It is clearly an issue bigger than the personal choices of individual mothers.

[helena handbasket]

That's a bit much, don't you think? You're asking why breast feeding for six months may be unrealistic. When people try to explain what some of the reasons are, you tell them they are too emotional to discuss it.

Do you think it might-just might- be that level of arrogance that gets people angry and emotional?

You don't want to hear the truth; you want to hear truth that confirms your suspicions that some people are just too dumb and uninformed to make the right decision. That's insulting. When people are insulted they get emotional.

[helena handbasket]

And that NCT survey is pointless. I can assure you that 90% of moms in Canada don't just happily breast feed from day one and continue without problems. Why would they tell English mothers this if not to induce guilt?

Gee, I wonder why women are angry?

[sophiechristophy]

I did not say that they are too emotional to discuss it, I suggested that if some people where feeling extremely sensitive about this topic then perhaps it would be in their best interests not to read this thread, rather than to ban the topic.

HHB - for some reason you have read from my words something that is not there. I don't know why you have done this.

[susyp]

I don't think it's about being sensitive. It's about having a different point of view to you.

Susypx

[Ruth_Baldock]

Susyp; I'm not criticisng (sp, it's early) you, or whoever told you about breastmilk after 6mo, but I'm afraid that's totally untrue. I don't think that there is any point at which breastmilk's benefits and nutritional value decreases.